Emergency Cooling ?

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velvetfoot

Minister of Fire
Dec 5, 2005
10,202
Sand Lake, NY
I understand it's the emergency cooling loops are a European requirement, correct? How does it work? Is there a tank of water at an elevation higher than the boiler that drains into the boiler when there is a loss of power, or is it low water level? Do we in the US usually have auto makeup water vs Euro? Typically people here have a dump loop at a higher elevation than the boiler that passively cools things off on loss of power? When I visited Mark at AHONA, his boiler had a UPS that circulated boiler water back to the storage tank upon loss of power.

What's the best way to go?

(Yes, I will do some more searching, etc)


Thanks.
 
Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but when my boiler was installed, they put a loop of fintube thats hooked up to a automag valve. It's powered to close and when the power goes out it opens. Recommended fin tube to equal 10% of boiler out put. And this is hung higher than the boiler
 
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On mine (I think), one end of the cooling coil got plumbed to your house fresh feed, with a thermostatic valve in between, and the other end runs to drain. If the boiler overheats, the valve opens and cold water runs through the coil to drain. Mines not hooked up.
 
My burnham has a pressure relief valve plumbed into the firebox as well as an overheat loop. I really don't want to see how well the relief valve plumbed into the firebox works
 
Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but when my boiler was installed, they put a loop of fintube thats hooked up to a automag valve. It's powered to close and when the power goes out it opens. Recommended fin tube to equal 10% of boiler out put. And this is hung higher than the boiler

This is what I have as well. Super simple and plain fin tube wasn't all that expensive.

You could also hook into a large zone in your house assuming it was big enough and it was above the boiler.

I'm not sure if it's a requirement here in the states but it's a really good idea.

There's also overheat protection, which is nothing more then an aquastat tied into my biggest zone so if the boiler hit 200F it opens up that zone to get ride of the extra heat. These two things are separate setups but seem to get mistakenly lumped together.

K
 
I have a battery backup and a automag controlled dump zone. If you are on well water the cooling loop won't work in a loss of power (no well pump), you also have to have away to drain the cooling water.
 
I have a automag system for three of my zones there are 2 fail safes in the system . My boiler is in the back of my garage under my three bedrooms and bath which is one zone . If I have an over fire with power on my dump zone will kill the power to the combustion fan and kick on the zone pump and open the basement zone . If I have a power outage the automags will open and my upstrairs zone starts to gravity feed -- ( in reverse , why I dont know ) I have tried it as a mock power outage and it does work but I I have seen temps get to 230 when I was in a hard fire and I flipped the breaker . my dump zone was set up for my previous boiler without storage . I doubt I would ever see all my storage up to 200 degrees to kick on the dump , but who knows its there in case .
 
I understand it's the emergency cooling loops are a European requirement, correct? How does it work? Is there a tank of water at an elevation higher than the boiler that drains into the boiler when there is a loss of power, or is it low water level? Do we in the US usually have auto makeup water vs Euro? Typically people here have a dump loop at a higher elevation than the boiler that passively cools things off on loss of power? When I visited Mark at AHONA, his boiler had a UPS that circulated boiler water back to the storage tank upon loss of power.

What's the best way to go?

(Yes, I will do some more searching, etc)


Thanks.

Cooling loop works as Maple1 described. Typically you connect domestic CW to one end of the coil, and dump the other. Rapid cooling of the boiler. Problem is if you are on a well pump, you wont have too much water. I have a similar coil, mine isnt hooked up to anything.

Go with the dump zones that others have mentioned here with an automag, Also, if you can, pipe so your system will thermosyphon into storage without power. A loading valve should allow for that all on its own.

You can go the UPS/pump route, but for overheat protection, Im a fan of KISS.
 
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Cooling loop works as Maple1 described. Typically you connect domestic CW to one end of the coil, and dump the other. Rapid cooling of the boiler. Problem is if you are on a well pump, you wont have too much water. I have a similar coil, mine isnt hooked up to anything.

Go with the dump zones that others have mentioned here with an automag, Also, if you can, pipe so your system will thermosyphon into storage without power. A loading valve should allow for that all on its own.

You can go the UPS/pump route, but for overheat protection, Im a fan of KISS.
Have you ever tested it? It seems like it might be scary. Mark demonstrated the ups/pump setup and pulled the plug on the boiler-the changeover was pretty stress free. More complicated, yes.
 
Usually once a month I through the breaker and let the system run on battery for a couple of hours to draw down the battery. I have exercised the automag also. Temp got to about 240*. The battery backup is my prefered scenario.
 
What's the best way to go?
Best is probably gravity flow to adjacent elevated storage, but first you need top of storage high enough above top of the boiler, fat enough pipes, and a low-resistance flapper-type check valve, ball-type check valve, or automag type valve.

If automag plus finned coils is easier or more cost effective then that is the best way to go. Either way gravity based solutions are what is required, as Fukishima has shown.

The hard part for me was the check valve. Loading units come with just the right check valve for free, but my budget didn't include a loading valve assembly. I built one by replacing the bronze flapper of a conventional swing check with an equivalent part machined/carved out of HDPE. Works great but it took half a day to build, test, and deploy.

As for high enough storage and fat enough pipes, the calculations are pretty straightforward. For mine I have 30 inches from top of boiler to top of storage plus about 36 inches of boiler with a vertical tank. I assumed the boiler was equivalent to 18 inches of return temperature water plus 18 inches of supply temperature water.

For worst case design I figured that storage would be fully charged to 180 degF (and therefore 180 degF return temperature) and the fire going full blast. Assuming a supply temperature of 220 degF I went and figured the weights of all the one-square-inch columns of water involved and came up with a three tenths of a psi of head or whatever and used that to figure the flow through the boiler, pipe, and elbows. I came up with a little over 4 gpm, which would be 80000 btu per hour on a good testing day, so I figured it was worth a try.

Got the system up and running and got storage up to 180 degF top to bottom with a good big fire and a nice deep layer of coals and cut the power. The supply temperature peaked out closer to 230 degF but it seemed to ride it out just fine. Once the draft fan was off things calmed down pretty well.
 
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Have you ever tested it? It seems like it might be scary. Mark demonstrated the ups/pump setup and pulled the plug on the boiler-the changeover was pretty stress free. More complicated, yes.

Yup, I have. I have the automag valve on the top of my boiler, and a bunch of fin tube across the top of the boiler room. Had a full fire ripping, power cut out, and that was that. My boiler has a combustion fan, so when that goes down, its just a matter of getting rid of the heat in the boiler itself. The fire really dies down quickly without the fan.

I did put an automatic vent in my fin tube loop, since thats where any errant air in my system will collect, and when I test it out, it always seems to burp just a little.

Not saying that Mark's setup is a bad one, but its just another pump and another electronic thing to keep an eye on and replace when it wears out. I have a few UPS units myself that I would consider putting on my system, but that would be to keep the boiler running and charging storage, not for overheat. In an "oh crap" scenario, the more variables I can remove, the better.
 
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Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but when my boiler was installed, they put a loop of fintube thats hooked up to a automag valve. It's powered to close and when the power goes out it opens. Recommended fin tube to equal 10% of boiler out put. And this is hung higher than the boiler


I've thrown the breaker when it's 190's and the boiler wide open. It works.
 
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