Empyre Elite

[Sheridan]

Anybody have input on these units besides what’s on their web site?
Looking for someone’s operating experience and piping arrangements (with heat exchanger)

 

[EffectaBoilerUser (USA)]

There was a post a day or two ago in which many users chimed in on their experiences. I think it was titled ProFab Dealers.

However, please be aware that the Empyre units do not normally get used with water storage (the 100 model has 60 gallons of water) and as such spend much of their time idling.

As many of us gasification users know. without storage the small amuont of water in the boiler qucikly comes up to the max. temperature causing the boiler's induced draft fan to shut down and the boiler to idle.

Gasification boilers are designed to operate at high temperatures and with full gasifiaction during the entire burn and without storage this is impossible.

When a gasification boiler is not gasifying becasue it is in "idle mode" than it becomes much like the normal OWB (run for a short time and then shut down-idle mode). This is really magnified in the shoulder seasons of fall and spring when the temps are 40-50F.

In addition, I know of people in my area who use their OWB's to heat DHW all summer and the boilers spend almost 100% of the time in idle mode (producing large amounts of stinky, smokey emissions).

By contrast, my effecta lambda 35 boiler system with 1000 gallons of storage is required to burn once for 5 hours every 5-6 days during the summer to produce our DHW. Obviously when it is gasifying it is operating at extremely high temperatures with very minimal emissions.

Thus, for the above reasons and more that I didn't mention, I would never think of operating a gasification boiler without storage.

Thanks,

Brian

 

[martyinmi]

Effecta user,
I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. The little Empyre boiler is an awesome little machine(it holds around 35 gallons of water). Because of it's small jacketed water capacity, it cycles very often, and when it does, gasification is almost instant. I've watched a Garn unit being re-fired after 48 hours of idle time, and it did not achieve what I consider full gasification for the first 15 minutes. The owner claimed full gasification within 6 minutes(two different perspectives I suppose). I certainly do not have an effective means to measure exhaust emissions, but I'd surely bet a six pack of your favorite brew that the Empyre will not emit more particulates into the atmosphere than the Garn in a cold winter month. Until you watch one of these modern OWB gassers burn, you simply won't be able to grasp the concept. You are going to release as many or more particulates into the atmosphere because of the frequency of your new fires you build. You need to understand that the OWB gassers rely on a super heated refractory to hold heat so that gasification takes place almost instantly when air is re-introduced. The red hot bed of coals is secondary to the precoss. At idle, there is barely any thing exiting the exhaust other than a bit of moisture, and that would be comparable to a cigarette burning.
Today's modern OWB gassers ARE "designed to operate at high temperatures and with full gasification during the entire burn" without mass storage. Fears of running out of stored heat are put to rest also, as most models will easily go 24 hours with a full load. Most, however, load 2x/day, which takes less than 1 minute each time. When you refer to "us gasification users", I hope that you are aware that that group of "users" also includes myself and thousands of other OWB gasifier owners.
I guess you and I are trying to achieve the same goal, but we are taking different paths to get there. I would never put 1000 gallons of hot water in my basement. You wouldn't have it any other way.

Marty

 

[Sheridan]

Thanks for your input.
I checked into the posts you advised me of and it’s about a different model other that the Empyre Elite. A fellow with a door gasket issue.
However, I understand the Gasification theory, hotter combustion = cleaner emissions. Shot cycles dampens the gasification effect.
There must be some credit to these units? The EPA accepted them as Phase 2 requirements. How smoky can they be?
I like to hear from someone who has this (indoor) unit.
A while back there was a post of the same unit with installation pictures, I cannot seen to locate the post.
(Someone actually said it was like looking at boiler porn)

How would the piping arrangements be on an open system boiler?
I’ll provide some details.
1-3300sq ft well insulated house
2-current heated with oil (ouch!)
3-Forced Air with 3 zones, (1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs, 3rd zone is for the hot water heater). 4- outdoor units not allowed. Dam!

OK, I admit I’m Installing a Elite.

Yes, a Water to Water exchanger is needed but where would suggest the secondary piping go? How would it be tied into the existing boiler?
Bill at Profab said to cut in to the existing return. In other words the secondary side of the HX is in series with the oil Boiler return line. I’m not crazy about the Idea. Concerned about lag time on the WB.

The Elite has a pump on the primary side that runs continuously , as long as the water temp is up.
Any suggestions?

I'll post some phots once I figure out how to upload

Happy New Year!