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Englander 30 First Fire Issue

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by 04HemiRam2500, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. BCC_Burner

    BCC_Burner Feeling the Heat

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    Can't speak to the layout of your house, but try closing the damper down slowly.

    Once I have a fire established my stove top temps increase as I close the damper and I get more secondary action instead of just sending heat up the flue. When you have the firebox good and hot you can shut the damper incrementally, which will allow secondary combustion of the smoke to occur. This generates a lot of heat and leaves you with a charcoal like substance in the firebox once the wood is largely done outgassing. This charcoal like substance doesn't release much smoke or creosote, as those substances are related to the volatiles in the wood, which were burned during the secondary combustion phase. This allows you to get that big initial blast of heat, then for the stove to maintain 350-500 degree stove top temps for several more hours, while dampered way down and not making much pollution.

    It will take awhile just to get all that metal and brick in the stove hot, 30-60 minutes depending on your startup, then it will start to kick out the heat. After the first reload, once that is caught, burning well and you're inching the damper down is when you'll really start feeling the heat.

    It got down to 11 degrees at my poorly insulated cabin last night (2 stories, around 1400 sq. feet) and it was 86 in my living room where the stove is and 88 upstairs when I went to bed. Had 74 degrees in both locations this morning when I woke up and a nice bed of coals in the stove.

    There are a number of us who are new to this stove this winter on here, so don't give up yet. We have the experience and knowledge of the "old guard" combined with lots of first timers who are learning as they burn.

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  2. Hoozie

    Hoozie Burning Hunk

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    I think the general problem with the paper logs is that people load them like cord wood, then get surprised when it overfires on them. Hence, why most manufacturers don't like them.

    So, start with one or two, see how they burn combined with your current wood, and go from there.

    Now read the numerous threads about blowing cold air back to the stove, vs. blowing hot air across the house. ;)
  3. eclecticcottage

    eclecticcottage Minister of Fire

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    Haha, now watch that you don't go the other way and overdo it and overfire the stove!

    Paper logs? Dunno about those. Try tractor supply for Ecobricks or something similar like biobricks. We mixed ecobricks with our less than seasoned stuff for two years.
  4. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Don't know if it has been mentioned in the thread but loading it N/S instead of E/W provides a faster startup and hotter burn. Just don't load it where the doghouse air is blowing into the end of a split. Have it aimed between two splits on the bottom of the load and put your fire starting goodies a third of the way back between those two splits.

    And hang on for the ride...
    PapaDave likes this.
  5. laynes69

    laynes69 Minister of Fire

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    Keep your eyes peeled for seasoned wood. Although rare, it's possible to find well seasoned wood for sale. Of course it may come at a premium, but not always. As far as heating the house, it will take some time. There's alot of mass there to warm up. Also don't worry about stove temps as long as the house is warm. If your burning clean at 500 and your warm that's all that matters. Now if your pushing 700 and cold on a 45 degree day, then there's more issues than the stove.
    PapaDave likes this.
  6. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Wet pine is an invitation for some serious creosote accumulations. Don't burn pine unless it is seasoned. For now it may be better to stick to mixing in construction scraps with your existing wood. You can usually get a batch from a construction site or if you have a cabinetry shop nearby check there. Paper logs like DuraFlame should not be used in the stove. If you can get some BioBricks or Eco bricks that would be much better.

    Plan on checking your chimney at least once a month for creosote until you can start burning dry wood. You can help your wood dry faster by resplitting it and stacking it on a porch or in a garage with a fan blowing air across the splits.
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  7. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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  8. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Hemi, soooooo glad the "light" finally came on for you.
    Imagine, all these good folks actually know what they're talking about. Hmmm.;lol
    Ok, the idea with these new stoves is to get a good fire set, then reduce primary air. You may need to adjust yours differently due to the wood being less than optimal, but once the wood is going well and the door is closed, close the primary a bit at a time.
    The fire may look like it's going to die, but give it a couple minutes to recover. Let it burn a few, then reduce air again.
    Mess with it, but not too much. The idea is to get it to the point where the primary is closed or almost closed, then the secondaries kick in.
    You'll get it.
    Seems like someone mentioned this, but you can try some eco bricks along with wood, mixed.
    Use a fan at the other end of the house blowing toward the stove room, set on the floor....low speed. It'll set up a convective loop.
    I believe begreen addressed this already. Seems counterintuitive, but it works. Trust us on this one too, unless your house is chopped up and not open.
  9. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    laynes69 that is part of my problem right now. The game room where the stove is 73 but the hallway that connect the game room to the house has a thermometer that says on 68. I am thinking that the furnace with the bigger blower will suit my needs. Like I was afraid of even with a good fire going right now still am not getting heat to other side of house. I am concerned since it is only 39 outside now. The house is well insulted there is just not enough umph in this blower to move it!!

    Thanks for all the help getting the stove going but now that I do have some clue as to operate this thing if it does not heat up old part of the house by midnight will purchase the furnace.
  10. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Temps sound ok for mid to later stage in the burn. Remember that 250F on the surface of the flue pipe is going to be more like 350-400F inside. Once the wood is fully charcoal it will not foul the chimney, though you may want to open up the air a little more at the late stage of the load to burn up the coal bed a bit. You are going to have to use judgement for this. The wood dryness may vary. For a long burn turn down the air until the flames get very lazy, but not smoldering or smoking. As the winter goes on your wood will get drier as long as it is under top cover. With drier wood and colder temps at some point you may be turning down the air more than right now. Expect a learning curve here and pay attention to the fire and thermometers. Be patient and observant and you'll do ok.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
    RockyMtnHigh likes this.
  11. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    Thanks begreen I just think the furnace will move the heat t the other side of my large house better just wanted to get a second opinion about that.
  12. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Try this trick. Do you have a table fan? Here is a trick for distributing the heat. It works quite well assuming that there is a line of sight path between the cooler area and the stove room. The idea is to blow the cooler air down at floor level, toward the stove. For more even heat in the house put a table or box fan in a cooler room within sight of the stove room, placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove room. Run it on low speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the room temp after about 30 minutes running. And the stove room temp should drop by a corresponding 5+ degrees.
  13. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    Fan "trick" works quite well . . . it's how I move the heat throughout most of my house.

    Unlike a furnace or boiler though . . . it does take time to bring the heat up in the rest of the house.
  14. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    How large a house are you trying to heat and what style is it? Ranch, colonial, salt box? How open or closed off is the floor plan?
  15. RockyMtnHigh

    RockyMtnHigh Feeling the Heat

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    I can attest to the fan trick. I have a dual window fan on the floor in my living room pointed right at my stove pulling it from the bedroom/bathroom area. I also have a ceiling fan pushing the air down. This does a half decent job of circulating the air to my bedroom and bathroom. I live in an A-Frame with an 18' or so tall ceiling and the bedroom/bathroom area is an addition to the side of the house, one story. It is pretty tough to get air over there.

    I have a Lux programmable outlet thermostat and a thru-wall fan on the way from Amazon. Still trying to decide between pushing cold air into the room with the stove from the bedroom, or pulling hot air from the woodstove room to the bedroom. We never sleep with the bedroom door shut so I think either way will work just fine....
  16. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    Okay guys who ever guessed that my problems with the stove is because of human error well, they are CORRECT!!!

    I threw in some dry bark and I closed the dampner slowly all the way and I saw what you meant about activating the secondary burn tubes. WITH THE DAMPER CLOSED STOVE GOT TO 650 JUST ON BARK!!!

    I think that it is safe to say that the draft is good. My question so far is that after about 35 minutes the burn tubes stopped so I opened damper little by little but they would not activate.

    Could it be that the tubes are done burning the bark or even though I do not see it they are working and I should have left the damper closed!!
  17. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    Slow down, take a deep breath, get some good fuel, and play around over the course of a few weeks before you go making any more decisions.

    Think of what this rapid burst of experimentation has shown you already! Relax and take some careful observations with how you treat each fire and its effects. There's no accelerating a learning curve, just work with what you have with patience.

    I've have going on 20 cord of fuel through mine and I'm still finding new tricks.

    pen
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
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  18. RockyMtnHigh

    RockyMtnHigh Feeling the Heat

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    After your fire turns into basically just a wall of red coals the fire isn't expelling as many gasses, this is why the secondary burn system quits doing it's duty, there just isn't as much gas left to burn. Your stove is fine now go find some dry wood HemiRam!

    I'm glad you figured it out and it's much like riding a bike, you skin your elbows and knees a bunch but when you learn to ride with no hands you can jump the Grand Canyon
    pen likes this.
  19. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Nice, you are aware the stove is considered to be a very good one by the owners, not sure where you are coming from.
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  20. Mrs. Krabappel

    Mrs. Krabappel Minister of Fire

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    [​IMG]
  21. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Good eye teach. I missed that bit of misinformation. Mass production can actually improve quality. Englander has done a great job at producing a quality affordable stove.
  22. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    I agree once you get the hang of it this stove is worth the 2-3k stove out there. I am going to get the bigger blower for mine though.
  23. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    This stove actually burns well even with VERY weak draft. I have one connected to a 12" square flue.(I know,not recommended) Even when cold i can light the stove quickly and get it roaring.
  24. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    The guy showed up today and pee'd on my advice in the classic room and then on my stoves in this one. ;lol A charmer.

    Where did I put that button...
  25. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Dont run your stove with the door open except on startup.

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