Englander 30....Having Trouble Burning...How Does it Work?!?!? Is it Getting Enough Air? (Noob)

[yooperdave]

sure sounds like what i went through when i switched to an epa stove this spring (nc-13) my guess is that your wood is not dry enough. tried a lot of fine tuning of the stove and venting that i really didn't need to do; once i got some good dry wood, i started the fires by using small splits stacked in the old n s and e w configuration-kinda like a log cabin pile of wood. the smaller pieces burnt well and hot, then i added the larger pieces to that and was ok.
the old non-epa stove is missed, but i do use a bit less wood with this new stove...just have to be a bit more vigilant about what goes into it. and of course, the new stove is smaller in size

 

[Ubookz]

My initial reaction: draft; not the chimney but incoming draft; you can really see this effect if you have the front stove door open slightly when starting a burn.

 

[blades]

Outside temps in th30-50 range really slow the 30 down. When they drop more you will see a difference in operation. I did read of one person have a similar problem ( really no control at all) and on his during shipping the control for the incoming air became detached from its sliding baffle.
Note: THE 30 LIKES DRY AS IN LESS THAN 20% MOISTURE FUEL, it absolutely will not perform correctly with high moisture content fuel. 20% is a rough rule of thumb, in reality 15% or less for the 30 is much better. Also it is a big stove and it does take awhile to get up to proper operating temp.
Make sure your OAK is not partially plugged by derbis. spider webs and the like. There are 4 air intakes on unit 2 up front in either corner behind where the legs attach ( if using the pedestal it is almost impossible to see them) and 2 on the back 3" is the primary intake connected to oak( if using and oak) below and ahead of that is a small rectangular opening about 1.5"x1" this is intake for secondaries.
Draft - it is possible that your draft is being affected by your roof line or trees or neighboring buildings, You may have to go higher on the portion above the ridge line of your roof, It should be a minimum of 3 ft above any ridge line with in 10 feet ( again this just a rule of thumb). Sometimes the topography can play mean tricks on you, so some experimentation might be in order. Be warm and safe Chris

 

[rottiman]

Temps have generally been in the 40ish to 55ish depending on the day. This afternoon is supposed to be about 33 by the time I get home, hopefully that will help. It is going to be raining/snowing so hopefully that wont hurt

Where did you get your ceramic blanket? Any reason why you didn't use a ceramic board instead? I've been thinking of adding a 1/2" board on top of mine since the factory ones don't fit well. Did you have any clearence issues with the 1" blanket? How close to the front of the existing ceramic board did you go?

Got the blanket off of E Bay last year. Was gonna use it on the stove that I have just replaced with the 30. I have no clearance problems and did keep it back about 3" from the front edge of the board. You will see a big difference in performance once the temps drop below 30 degrees.
These stoves don't appear to really like 40+ temps as the draft drops off too much. Also as someone stated the drier the better on the wood especially close grained wood like oak. I was alittle puzzled @ the start as well because the thing would not really perform well using the same liner and chimney that was flawless for the previous 10 years. It just takes some getting used to having to have a couple of things done differently. Its going down to 20 here tonight, so I am expecting to see er really pick up performance wise. We'll see.

 

[begreen]

I'll take a bunch of pictures tonight well documenting my install, my fire starting method (I'm going to try top-down), the progress of the fire, and if needed....the baffle.

It seems like a common complaint from numerous NC-30 users. There are two 1/2" thick ceramic boards that sit on top of the secondary burner tubes. Each one is roughly 10"x20" and they run N/S. The problem is that they are not precisely sized. There can be as much as a 1/8-1/4" either between the two boards, or at any side depending on how they were most recently positioned. They get moved around alot from loading the stove. I've read that alot of people on here either put a ceramic blanket or criss cross equal sized boards on top of thier existing boards. This leads to a hotter fire and better secondarys I believe.

I have never owned a stove with baffle boards, so bear with me, because I am baffled how they get moved around a lot from loading the stove. How does this happen? Aren't they above the burn tubes? I very rarely hit the baffle when loading the stove so this perplexes me. Not disagreeing that it happens, but the firebox in the 30NC seems plenty big enough so that this would not be a major issue. But if it is common, for sure check to confirm that they are properly in position before loading.

 

[BurnIt13]

Okay, as promised. Below is my setup. I also tried a top-down fire too!

45 Degree Offsets

15 Degree Offsets

Chimney Pipe

Top Down Base

Top Down w/ Kindling

Lift Off

After 10 Minutes, kindling was burning good....didn't take a pic though.

After 35 Minutes

Okay, things are really slowing down now after 45 minutes. The air control lever has been fully open the whole time.

 

[BurnIt13]

Alright, 55 minutes and the fire is out. Even when opening the door the coals from the kindling are almost burnt out. Going to have to add some scrap lumber pieces and try again.

 

[BurnIt13]

Just disconnected the outside air kit as well. No obstruction from the outside inlet to the back of the stove. I'll leave it off for a while as I troubleshoot this thing.

 

[GAMMA RAY]

Burnit...I think maybe you should start with less wood...I started a fire in the 30 today with 2 splits, n/s with a super cedar in the middle and just two small splits on top e/w....and it took off really well.

 

[BurnIt13]

Burnit...I think maybe you should start with less wood...I started a fire in the 30 today with 2 splits, n/s with a super cedar in the middle and just two small splits on top e/w....and it took off really well.

I'm going to have to agree with you. This was my first top-down and after I went and re-read the instructions from some posts here I had a OOOPSIES moment.

Stuffed the stove with more kindling and lumber scraps and it is an inferno with the door cracked. Shut the door and things start to go out. I'll let it simmer with the door shut for a few and see what happens.

 

[GAMMA RAY]

I would leave a gap in between the splits in front of the doghouse...about 3-4 inches...if you do not have a supercedar than I would put some of the newspaper bows in front of the doghouse in between the 2 splits and then maybe some small kindling on top...with the newspaper bows in between.
I used to do the top down thing until I discovered the supercedars...they are amazing! If you have never experienced them...you can get free samples...trust me..I have only 1 year under my belt and the super cedars are really a life saver especially for shoulder season.

 

[BurnIt13]

Super Cedar samples on the way.....and I'll be ordering some soon I'm sure.

Some news. After the second batch of kindling its running now. Flue temps are currently 650 and the stove top is about 575. I have the air control about 40% shut. The temps are rising slowly on the stove top so I'm going to back it down to 50% shut.

This is good.

 

[BurnIt13]

Ha! I'm having my first "pucker" moment. The stove is kicking but at 50% closed, stove top temps are at 650 and climbing but the flue temp is at 850!! holy crap batman!

Turned the blower on high to get some heat out of it and backed it down to 25% open, hopefully that will cool the flue down. Not that I'm "too" scared, I just want the heat to stay in my stove!

 

[blades]

That a single wall flue pipe? or have you got a probe in the middle for that reading? My double wall above the stove usually reads less ( couple foot above stove) than the stove top at the small rise even at 650-750 there, using the infrared gun.

 

[BurnIt13]

That a single wall flue pipe? or have you got a probe in the middle for that reading? My double wall above the stove usually reads less ( couple foot above stove) than the stove top at the small rise even at 650-750 there, using the infrared gun.

Its double wall but I have a probe type flue temp thermometer. Its installed 24 inches above the top of the unit.

 

[HotCoals]

Is the OAK unhooked now?

 

[BurnIt13]

Is the OAK unhooked now?

yes sir

 

[fossil]

Flue gas stream temp of 850°F measured with a probe thermometer is nothing to get all puckered up about. Rick

 

[HotCoals]

Is the OAK unhooked now?

yes sir

Big diff eh?
Reading your post it seemed like the fire was starving for air.

 

[blades]

You can close the control all the way at this point and enjoy the light show. I know when I get into the 750 range on the top I start having pucker moments also. Sure makes for a clean stack though. This is in part due to an over fire many years back with a different stove w/secondaries man the 3.5' of double wall to the ceiling adapter was glowing a dull red( with the lights off in the room), this in a mobile home. Way beyond the pucker stage more like the oh s--- stage. Load of pallet blocks . Let's just say that I have been very conservative in loading my solid fuel appliances ever since.

 

[dave11]

You'll find that the 30NC behaves totally differently when it's going from cold to hot, than when you reload it hot. In a cold stove/flue, I tend to run a smaller "sacrificial" load of wood to get it heated up, and though sometime it gets to secondary burn, sometimes not. It's the subsequent loads that really take off.

You should, however, only need to keep the door cracked for the first few minutes of the first burn. If not, something is still wrong, IMO.

It seems to be a finicky stove regarding wood and air, compared to other stoves that people here discuss.

 

[yooperdave]

Okay, as promised. Below is my setup. I also tried a top-down fire too!


Okay, things are really slowing down now after 45 minutes. The air control lever has been fully open the whole time.

burn it, i still say your wood is too wet (not dry enough). in the pics you posted, i didn't see a single crack in the end splits that you would get from seasoned and dry wood. maybe you know someone that has some good and dry wood that you can use to build a comparison fire with?? good luck brother

 

[iceisasolid]

With your chase, when it is enclosed (if you enclose it) you can put in 2 registers to circulate the heat that comes off the pipe. Place one high and one low. This set up keeps my sons room a little warmer.

 

[pen]

In general, you'll do better with those splits running front to back (north / south). The 30 doesn't like East-West so well.

Glad to hear the temps are coming up.

pen

 

[Mrs. Krabappel]

Hmm. Can you explain better about the factory boards not fitting well? .

Maybe because there's some play from where they sit? They are supposed to be pushed all the way back. In fact mine arrived with a puny layer of cement to keep them in place. Mine don't get moved around though.


I suspect it's just not cold enough combined with the wood. It will be interesting to see what happens with the lower temps.


Okay, just read the second page I missed.