Englander 30 is in. Not getting hot though. rrr

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nojo

New Member
Dec 22, 2009
224
Western/cent Mass
Hey guys,
Just installed my Englander 30 today.

The old stove was a small 1ft firebox trailblazer.

Our place is a 1800 sq ft colonial. 34ft Masonry chimney.

The old stove I could get blasting like crazy and it would heat the place up to about 65 and hit flue temps pretty high, I would have to turn it down. Anyway I would have to keep feeding it, kind of anoying.

The englander well is a different story. Wide open I can only get the stove top temp to around 400 and flue temps (on magnetic them) to just over 300. Not much is going on while this thing is wide open. But when I crack the door she drafts like an SOB and brings the heat. Im not getting good secondary action either.

Its good wood. 2 years split and is maple and some ash. Hell even some 2x4's went in there and still I cant get it to peek 400... Could my intake's be clogged?

This was a a used stove. Used for beginning of this season then sold to me.

How does you 30 burn wide open?
 
Nothing worse that a cool stove in frigid cold weather. Good luck to you!
 
How long do you leave your primary air control wide open when you reload? I'd leave it open until you are hitting the temps you want, then start dampening it down in several stages (2 or 3).
 
ive got a 13nc and i have draft problems too. Mine is because of short length on my pipe. I crack the door too sometimes and let top heat up to about 500. it seems that or more is where i get the secondaries to work good in my englander. i have to leave my primay pulled out maybe an 1/8" or a little mor to keep secondarys going.
 
I had the same issue with my new 30 last year. I installed a 6 inch insulated liner into my masonry chimney over the summer.
Problem solved. Great heat, good flue temps, and more efficient burns.
 
how the flue is setup and vented is just as important to what kind of fuel is used
 
With the stove left wide open, your letting the heat go up the stack and not build up in the firebox. Same for the secondaries, as you are letting all the volatile gases go up to fast, rather then them being burned by the secondaries. First off make sure you have the baffle boards pushed all the way to the back of the stove. Then close that air lever down to at least a 1/4 open. then adjust as needed to find the sweet spot.
The longer the stack, the better the draft. A 34" flue should make that thing need a flue damper. Is the flue lined? What is the diameter of the inner flue tiles? If too large, that could also be your problem.
 
Flue is a tile flue. Tile sizes are like 4x9 about? What I dont get is why my other stove raged on this same setup and this one just doesnt?

If the flue it too large creating a draft issue, then opening the door wouldn't have the raging fire effect would it? Think about it, the flue WANTS to draw air. So when opening the door its like 'Yes I've got air!' right? But it dont want to pull it through the stove?

Baffles are pushed against back of stove.

Air control wide open the fire doesnt burn to quick. Air control 1/4 open i get a black window.
 
ajhenglander said:
I had the same issue with my new 30 last year. I installed a 6 inch insulated liner into my masonry chimney over the summer.
Problem solved. Great heat, good flue temps, and more efficient burns.

What size was your original flue?

My chimney flue is 6x11 (just measured)

Enlgnader says not to exceed 2.5 times the flue size on the stove.

So a 6" flue is a 28" area. My flue is a 66" area just over 2x the flue size. So if 74" is OK, mine should be adequate.
 
Check to confirm that the air intake pipe in the rear of the stove is not blocked and that it doesn't have a rag stuffed in it.

As for the flue, 66 sq in. is pretty close to 2.5 times 28 or 70 sq. in. A liner may make a difference. However, first check to see if there is a cleanout door below the thimble. If there is, take some duct tape and seal it up well. Also check for air leakage at the flue collar and thimble to see if there is air entering at these points.
 
BeGreen said:
Check to confirm that the air intake pipe in the rear of the stove is not blocked and that it doesn't have a rag stuffed in it.

As for the flue, 66 sq in. is pretty close to 2.5 times 28 or 70 sq. in. A liner may make a difference. However, first check to see if there is a cleanout door below the thimble. If there is, take some duct tape and seal it up well. Also check for air leakage at the flue collar and thimble to see if there is air entering at these points.

Begreene, checked cleanout door on chimney. It was closed. It could definitely use a seal though.

Cheak intake hole and it was clear. Patche some leaks that sucked a lighter flame in on the pipe joints. Very minimal.

I just hooked a 3" metal hose to the air intake and put it in front of the stove so it could draw air from in front of the stove. Its liking that a LOT more. Will report back in 30min and give results. I think an OAK may just help this issue a lot.
 
If your chimney is on the exterior of the home then thats an issue. We went from a old furnace to an EPA model. The old furnace would get hot and not have any problems. With the new furnace, less air goes through the unit. On top of that, the flue temps are much lower. So by the time they get to the top of the chimney, they are luke warm which is spoiling the draft. We have a chimney the same size and height as yours and have had the same problems. I will be putting in a liner to solve some problems. Even though we have a baro on our furnace, when its closed and the furnace isn't burning full bore, I'm lucky to see a .03" which is low for a tall chimney. When the heat is poured into the chimney and the damper is open, then the draft can exceed .08". So flue temperature makes all the difference on a chimney. Without the manometer to meaure draft I would have never thought we would have an issue because of our tall chimney. I would say you need a liner, otherwise your flue gasses cool too much.
 
laynes69 said:
If your chimney is on the exterior of the home then thats an issue. We went from a old furnace to an EPA model. The old furnace would get hot and not have any problems. With the new furnace, less air goes through the unit. On top of that, the flue temps are much lower. So by the time they get to the top of the chimney, they are luke warm which is spoiling the draft. We have a chimney the same size and height as yours and have had the same problems. I will be putting in a liner to solve some problems. Even though we have a baro on our furnace, when its closed and the furnace isn't burning full bore, I'm lucky to see a .03" which is low for a tall chimney. When the heat is poured into the chimney and the damper is open, then the draft can exceed .08". So flue temperature makes all the difference on a chimney. Without the manometer to meaure draft I would have never thought we would have an issue because of our tall chimney. I would say you need a liner, otherwise your flue gasses cool too much.

Whats the flue size you are going with? How much you think kit will cost to do yours? Do you line only down to the nipple and put in a T? Are you going to use a flex or straight liner? If this is somethign I could do for </= $400 I'd be interested.
 
nojo said:
BeGreen said:
Check to confirm that the air intake pipe in the rear of the stove is not blocked and that it doesn't have a rag stuffed in it.

As for the flue, 66 sq in. is pretty close to 2.5 times 28 or 70 sq. in. A liner may make a difference. However, first check to see if there is a cleanout door below the thimble. If there is, take some duct tape and seal it up well. Also check for air leakage at the flue collar and thimble to see if there is air entering at these points.

Begreene, checked cleanout door on chimney. It was closed. It could definitely use a seal though.

Cheak intake hole and it was clear. Patche some leaks that sucked a lighter flame in on the pipe joints. Very minimal.

I just hooked a 3" metal hose to the air intake and put it in front of the stove so it could draw air from in front of the stove. Its liking that a LOT more. Will report back in 30min and give results. I think an OAK may just help this issue a lot.

Run that hose to the old ash clean out, and seal around that. See if that makes it run better.
Might need the outside air.
 
nojo said:
ajhenglander said:
I had the same issue with my new 30 last year. I installed a 6 inch insulated liner into my masonry chimney over the summer.
Problem solved. Great heat, good flue temps, and more efficient burns.

What size was your original flue?

My chimney flue is 6x11 (just measured)

Enlgnader says not to exceed 2.5 times the flue size on the stove.

So a 6" flue is a 28" area. My flue is a 66" area just over 2x the flue size. So if 74" is OK, mine should be adequate.


Original was 7"x9" rectangular tile, had it all busted out for the 6" insulated liner to fit.
 
nojo said:
BeGreen said:
Check to confirm that the air intake pipe in the rear of the stove is not blocked and that it doesn't have a rag stuffed in it.

As for the flue, 66 sq in. is pretty close to 2.5 times 28 or 70 sq. in. A liner may make a difference. However, first check to see if there is a cleanout door below the thimble. If there is, take some duct tape and seal it up well. Also check for air leakage at the flue collar and thimble to see if there is air entering at these points.

Begreene, checked cleanout door on chimney. It was closed. It could definitely use a seal though.

Cheak intake hole and it was clear. Patche some leaks that sucked a lighter flame in on the pipe joints. Very minimal.

I just hooked a 3" metal hose to the air intake and put it in front of the stove so it could draw air from in front of the stove. Its liking that a LOT more. Will report back in 30min and give results. I think an OAK may just help this issue a lot.

Your on the right track. Seal the cleanout door by putting a bead of silcone on the inside edge of the door. Then close the door and latch it. Add an OAK. That beast will be throwing off some heat soon.
 
You will have to check around to see what its going to cost you. I'll be around 400-450 with mine. I'm going with 6" but I will send down a paint can to see if it will fit alright, otherwise I may need a 5.5 to make it. I decided I don't have the space to go to the cleanout, so I will just tee at the base and and run the snout thru the thimble. Even if it costs a little more than you planned, I would still go ahead and do it. Its what drives the stove.
 
OK. Ran OAK hose to a temporary plate in a nearby window. So I am now sucking outside air.

Current status

External flue temps are now maxing out at 350F 18" up the flue. Verified with temp prob on multi meter. The magnetic therm is right on.
Is this alright? that would put my actual flue temp somewhere in the 500's right?


Stove top temps are getting to 600+ now.

Its burning pretty good. Its not crazy but its burning decent now.

I may have neglected to stat that I have 2 90deg bends in my flue. While it was not a problem with the old stove do you think this is really slowing my flue gas down and cooling it?
 
Those temps sound good. I would consider lining the chimney to bring it down to the proper size. It will take some time to get used to the stove. Eventually you will figure out what works best.
 
laynes69 said:
Those temps sound good. I would consider lining the chimney to bring it down to the proper size. It will take some time to get used to the stove. Eventually you will figure out what works best.

Can you just stick a liner in there or does it have to be surrounded by cement or other fill? Also any advantage to flex liner over the straight stuff? The straight stuff is about 250 cheaper.
 
If the liner is currently in good shape then a liner can be dropped in there without insulation. If its on an exterior chimney then insulation would be beneficial. I've never heard of rigid being less than flex, so I'm not sure what you have priced. The liner needs to be stainless.
 
I just had my first burn in my NC 30 last night. Draft was really good. About 20 ft of double wall insulated chimney through the center of the house. Before I hooked up the stove I could ash my cigarette and the ashes would go up the chimney. Was able to get the secondaries kicking pretty easily. I did find out that they don't want to light unless you cut back the air to 1/2 or less. The seasoned paint smell isn't too bad today. 2 fires so far and I am really impressed with this stove.
 
I know it's been mentioned earlier in the thread already, but I want to second what was already said.

Running the 30 wide open just lets all the heat go up the chimney.

My stove actually puts out the most heat with the air damped back a ways. Every stove/chimney setup is different, so the exact air position will be different for you than for me, but you definitely won't get great heat output by running with the air wide open.

-SF
 
[quote author="SlyFerret" date="1265514384"]I know it's been mentioned earlier in the thread already, but I want to second what was already said.

Running the 30 wide open just lets all the heat go up the chimney.

My stove actually puts out the most heat with the air damped back a ways. Every stove/chimney setup is different, so the exact air position will be different for you than for me, but you definitely won't get great heat output by running with the air wide open.

-SF[/quote

+1
 
I spoke with a rep from Englander earlier this week to ask about the size of my chimney and how it would effect a 30NC if I were to buy one. He said that these stoves are extremely stingy on the heat they let up the chimney which could result in a poor draft if the flue is too large and too tall. Your old stove may not have been as effecient and let plenty of heat up the flue helping to create a stronger draft.

My flue is 7"x10", 30+ feet tall and clay lined so I'll probably buy one knowing that I may need to have a liner installed for the stove to work properly. I may get lucky though because my current EPA non-cat stove has no problem at all pulling a strong draft but then again it's a cheap CFM and lets more smoke up the chimney than it should. Not a ton of smoke but on a fresh load it will smoke good but then if I look just right all I can see is the heat coming out.
 
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