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Englander air Question

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by wingsfan, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. wingsfan

    wingsfan Feeling the Heat

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    Just installed a nc30 and if we don't keep the air shut right down it will burn with stove top temps at 650 or more.. It has gotten to 750 a few times.We have the air wide open till the wood gets going, usually 5-10 minutes then we shut it down all the way and it cruises about 600.If I fill the box full it gets hotter than I feel safe with. How does everyone else work thier air control?I wouldn't want to load it full, get it going and go to bed. I think it would get too hot,

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  2. rottiman

    rottiman Minister of Fire

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    you've got LOTS of draft with that 26' chimney. I run mine with the air fully shut down after establishing a good burn. Once I push the air shut, the secondaries kick right in and throw a great show. Not sure what you are using to measure your temps (IR or spring loaded dial) but the dials tend to inaccurate to varying degrees. I have found the IR works most accurately. My stove peaks out in the 750 range and then drops slowly. I have been 24/7 burning it for 2 years now without any problem and she is a heat monster for sure. The better the wood, the better she performs.
  3. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    With it loaded FULL..It seems to hit 750° regularly. I expect it to.

    I shut mine down to about 1/2"-1" closed. I have found closing earlier helps.

    My biggest asset is the blower. I went all last year without it. Stove did well, but the blower does help to keep it under control.

    Many other 30 users. Im looking forward to the other responses :)
  4. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

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    750 won't hurt it. Mine seems to cruise there more often than not. It'll take a while to figure her out. You have a strong, American made stove that will take some abuse.

    Sleep well,
    Matt
    n3pro likes this.
  5. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    This is not what I wanted to hear. The stove goes to 700 and cruises there?
    Unless it's 0::F out, I don't need all that, and certainly not in "shoulder season".
    Smaller loads perhaps, or doesn't it matter?
  6. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    Is this with a full load or a part load? You loading N-S or E-W?

    If you haven't tried E-W yet, on the next reload, rake all your coals to the front, load E-W (left to right) and see what you get.

    If things are still too hot it may be time to consider a pipe damper for some secondary air restriction, etc.

    pen
    oknev likes this.
  7. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

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    That's what my stove likes to do. Your stove will be different since you have a different chimney, have different atmospheric conditions, etc.

    You'll learn your stove, it takes time. For shoulder seasons I just let a fire burn out and then relight it when I need heat. The mass of the stove will let the heat off for a while after it is out. Again, this is what works for me. Your situation is completely different. My 30 is also in my basement so the high heat isn't pushing me out of the room.
  8. mtcates

    mtcates Member

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    This will be the third winter I have heated with the 30. Try blocking the unregulated primary air inlets on the bottom of the stove behind the front legs of the stove. This eliminates the zipper air and allows the stove to burn much like a cigar from front to back. This makes for a longer and cooler burn. Play around with this and you might like the control better with this mod. It takes all of one minute to do this mod with two small flat magnets about the size of a quarter.
  9. BobUrban

    BobUrban Minister of Fire

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    1st yr with a 30 here too - lots of 30 users on here and I have found that all the praise of this stove on hearth has been "understated" or at least my skepticism was too high. I am so happy with this thing I cannot believe it. As compared to the VC I ran last year in my first yr burning 24/7 and heating my home with wood.

    I have been following the Vets advice here with load techniques and coal placement and have had no trouble at all with controled, long burns and continious heat. I am actually keeping it too hot in here most of the time and probably going through more wood than necessary but I just am excited about the stove. Even w/o really loading her up perfectly I get 8+hr burns with 2-300 stovetop temps in the AM for relight. With a 1/4 load of splits in the AM I take the house from 69/71 to 75/80 in no time. I also find I can typically close it right off after the fire gets going and keep a nice secondary burn going with just 3-4 splits. As it gets colder I may play with the magnets for longer "HOT" burns at night if I find I need it but for now I cannot say enough. The first few times I saw 600+ on the top I turned on the fan and the heat poured into the room but now I have become comfortable with the heat monster and really do not worry about it.

    One time during high winds I got a few wisps of smoke leaking around my new thimble going from pipe to chimney at the cealing so I pulled it apart and used a little rutland bead to seal it up. No problem since. I only used the 800 degree stuff so that I could get it apart later for cleaning. I sweep from the bottom up and because I am going from 6" pipe into 8" chimney I need to get that part "apart". After a month of shoulder buning and some learning curve smoldering I found zero build up in the chimney and a little blackness in my pipe. With the colder weather and learning curve advanced I anticipate that to be much improved with subsequent views and sweeps this winter. Did I mention I love this stove?? Oh - and my wood stash is one yr older and I am certain that has contributed as much as any other single factor in my success.

    I certainly sleep better at night with this appliance running at 650+ than I did with my VC running at 450+ May just be a mind set but this stove just feels safer.
    jjs777_fzr, PapaDave and pen like this.
  10. wingsfan

    wingsfan Feeling the Heat

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    Can i get to the primarry air inlet with the pedistal on it to try magnets.I am getting very long burn times on half loads. It just made me nervous getting in the mid to upper 600's. I am getting more comfortable with it the more I use it. If I have to fill it up and sit down there the whole time to make sure everything goes good to satisfy my suspicions , then I might just have to do that.Thanks for the replies so far, just hearing that is like normal for these stove makes me feel a little better.I just got nervous when it got that hot with the air all the way down. I wasnt sure how i was gonna get the temps back down with no use of the air.
  11. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    A 30 with the ped should be the easiest one to restrict intake since all primary, secondary and doghouse air has to come through that hole in the back of the ped. Unlike the leg model where each opening is open to room air.

    But six hundred is a nice clean cruising temp for the stove. Not that I would ever let it happen, but I hear a rumor that it won't split down the middle at a thousand degrees. ;em
    n3pro and pen like this.
  12. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    They would have to still block off the Doghouse air and secondary air?

    The pedestal is no different than the legs, when it comes to air flow for the stove. Unless they made a Big plate to.go across the entire back of the pedestal. But then, one wouod have to completely seal the pedestal? No? Because its not a tight fit, and has leaks/gaps everywhere.

    I had the pedestal on last year and just reached up from the back of the stove (lay on your side). If your stove provides the clearance . I now have the legs on (magnets are much easier to get to). Looks much better ;)
  13. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Yeah disregard my post. Since you can use one in a mobile home with the ped and outside air I made the erroneous assumption that all air comes through a hole in the ped. Just went downstairs and looked at the new one that I haven't installed yet in the basement and Dex is right. All of the other intakes are wide open to room air.

    I spoke out of school. ;em
  14. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    The Magnets I use still have holes in them. But they are very small. So some (very little). Gets to the doghouse. And the air that does, has traveled slower and been preheated even more than it would have been.

    The holes are probably around 20%-25% the size of the hole that is there.

    The circulation that it provides it still pretty nice, but nothing like the Blowtorch it used to be. Burn time is heavily affected by the Doghouse on this stove.

    I never really tried blocking it 100%. I may this year, but I am taking the trials slow. I reduced my pellet consumption by over 50% last year and I didn't have a blower on the 30. I waited a year to see how it did (Did Awesome, now I want more :)) Although last Winter wasn't terrible, I know the 30 played a Big part in that reduction (4.5 ton to 2 ton). Every year I hope to improve that... :cool:

    2012-11-08_21-15-45_154.jpg
  15. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I would block my doghouse but I doubt it would do anything. It is sitting on a shelf in the garage for the last three years.
    DexterDay likes this.
  16. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Your the one that gave me the idea of doing so.

    But after partially blocking the holes I have, it does not burn the loads as fast as it did and the air seems to come in slow and hotter. (Kinda like a Lower secondary air? Although not really possible)

    Before the Coals were always bright in that spot. Now they are dim lit and the flames move slower (lazier).

    You have a Big influence on the 30 users here (Pen too!) Whether you know it or not.
  17. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    The key is getting over the idea that you close a stove all of the way down. If you block that air you are responsible for leaving it enough primary air to burn. Not the EPA. Block off those unrestricted holes and don't leave the primary open enough and you have just invented a 1977 smoke dragon.
    DexterDay likes this.
  18. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Only listen to Pen. He is running an unmodified 30 free standing like it was born to be used. I have a unique situation with a monster drafting 21 ft chimney and high velociity 5.5" liner with half of the stove back inside a masonry fireplace. None of which the stove was ever designed or intended for. Heat retention around the stove inside the fireplace calls for two years of dinking with things to get it right. Not to mention draft that would suck a new tennis ball through a 50' garden hose.

    But I love this big bad boy.
    DexterDay likes this.
  19. BobUrban

    BobUrban Minister of Fire

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    B Bart, Gama Ray and many others pushed me over the edge to choosing this stove as I did my homework all last season here and in the end the only issue I had/have with it is the RH opening due to the hearth configuration I built. I have magnets to play with and right there in the even of a run away but so far this thing has proven too perfect for my set up.

    I am quite certain I could configure my loads better and possibly tweek the air intake a bit to extend burn times but heck - I am getting more than adaquate distance between loads with tons of heat now - so for the time being, "If it ain't broke..." You'all know the rest.

    If I am going through more wood than I need too I will just cut more - I am truly blown away with this stoves performance, ease of use and feeling of safety I did not completely have with the ole Dragoon!

    For the record I have 16 total feet of pipe in a straight shot, through house configuration with the first 6' or so as DBL wall stove pipe into TPL wall chimney. Stove pipe is 6" necked down to 8" chimney. Originally I was concerned about potential draw issues going into the 8" and thought another 3' may be needed but so far I get what seems to be perfect lazy flames, a hot stove (550-650) on top and long burns.

    I am sure I would have felt the same regarding performance of any quality stove I chose but for $699.00 delivered to my hearth - geesh, I would be asking a lot if I wanted more :)

    Once you get comfortable with the appliance and see that it is just going to sit there at 600 and cruise all night producing heat you will be less worried. It's just the first few times you see that needle climbing fast that are scary. I got over that curve last season messing around with the monkey rodeo smoke dragon and learning here that I should expect those temps so the pucker factor has been rather non-existant even on the few times I have pushed 700 on the 30. Add more wood and enjoy the show.
  20. Danno77

    Danno77 Minister of Fire

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    I scanned the posts and found lots of work arounds, but didn't easily see what I've offered advice to other 30 owners when they are learning their stove. That advice is to close down in steps and close down anticipating, rather than reacting.

    That means that instead of waiting until it gets hot, partially close down when things look engulfed and are moving towards getting hot. then as the temp continues to rise close it off a little more, then finally you should hit a spot (about 30+ minutes from a cold stove, or 15-20 minutes from a reload) where you can back it off to the setting you'd like it to cruise at. The key here is to set the air where it would be cruising, but you might fool yourself because the stove temp is not up to where you'd like to cruise at. What you should expect when you close it down is the secondaries to start firing from a slow outgassing which will raise the temps on the stove top. If you wait too long to close down you have your wood basically dumping all it's gasses at once, which will send your secondaries into nuclear mode and your stove will just run out of control trying to burn that fuel all at once.
  21. leeave96

    leeave96 Minister of Fire

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    We burn our 30NCH at around 525, though sometimes it creeps up to 600ish on the initial burn or after reloading. At 525, we get no smoke out the chimney - which aside from heating, is my goal. This year we are burning E/W and getting longer burns - and using less wood as it is harder for my crew to load the stove to the gills E/W vs. N/S. My chimney has to be at least 26 ft tall, class A chimney pipe. I have a single wall stove pipe to the chimney, but plan on changing it to double wall as it collects a fair amount of creosote (the dry/flakey kind), but the insulated chimney is really clean. We can burn the stove hotter if necessary, I wouldn't be concerned about 750 temps unless you are cooking the paint off the walls.

    We have not had much luck dampering all the way down, usually the lowest we go is about 1/4 to 1/2 inches out from full closed damper position. I tried blocking off the doghouse and at first thought it was great, but for our set-up, having the dog house air blasting onto the bottom of the wood seems to keep the fire going better. If/when I have more time, I might mess with the dog house again.

    I have read several posts regarding this stove and it's ability to get out of control (read 1,000 degrees with pegged thermometer needle) on a hot reload, but (knock on wood) haven't came close to this. Our stove seems very controllable.

    I thought I would have a fan on the back of the stove by now, but haven't got to it. It is something I want to try - as well as the half side shields to induce more convection heating.

    Great stove you've got - keep working/experimenting with it and you'll find the groove that works best for your set-up.

    Bill
  22. Maple man

    Maple man Burning Hunk

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    the 30 is definitely a heat bomb i load it up before i go to sleep let it get going and then shut it down the secondaries get going and it cruses at 650-700 fore about 3-5 hours then starts to drop
  23. wingsfan

    wingsfan Feeling the Heat

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    After hearing these replys, I think I can feel more comfertable with it,I just need to spend more time with it.

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