Englander NC13 vs. NC30

[jdadd23]

Hi all,

We are new to wood stoves and preparing to purchase our first one. Have been reading everything we can find here on the forums to help us get going.

My first question involves choosing the correct stove based on the size/layout of our home. We have read the relevant articles/posts, but since our square footage seems borderline for two stoves we're looking at, we need a little direction.

We have a 1950's ranch home that we just purchased this year. The total square footage is 1771 sq ft and we are heating about 1675 of that right now with forced air/propane. We close off and choose not to heat the entry/mudroom because it has no insulation. The house goes in kind of a circular layout and is not an open floorplan. We are working on increasing insulation and sealing windows/doors, but the house is still somewhat drafty at this point.

We are planning to buy an Englander stove. I am unsure whether the NC13 or the NC30 would be better for us. Since we would like to ultimately transition to heating with as much wood and as little propane as possible, I am afraid the NC13 would be too small to heat our house given the layout and the fact that it only heats up to 1800 sq ft under optimal conditions. But the stove will be located in our kitchen (~400 sq ft) and I don't want to choose the NC 30 if it will be too much for that room or for the house overall. The kitchen is the coldest room in the house currently. We are choosing to install the stove there because the previous owners had one and there is a newer chimney already in place that meets the specs for the Englander. After seeing the propane cost to just keep the house in the 50-60 degree range, I now understand why they had a wood stove!

Would appreciate any input. If I have left out any necessary or pertinent info, please let me know.

 

[begreen]

Both will probably heat the house. You may have to push the 13 NC harder in very cold weather and probably supplement with the propane in extremely cold weather. On the other hand in milder weather, say 20F deg and above it could be a better fit for comfort and clean burning. The 30NC is larger and more capable of heating the house under extreme conditions, but you are right to be concerned about overheating, especially during milder winter weather if the house has many rooms with normal doorways connecting them.

The stove is an area heater. Unless a decent circulation pattern can bring cooler air into the kitchen from other parts of the house, it could get pretty warm in there, especially when baking. What is the area of the kitchen and how is it connected to the other rooms? Can you post a sketch of the floorplan so that we can see what opportunities for circulation are there?

 

[mol1jb]

Hey Jdadd,

Welcome to the forums. I have a house similar sive and from what I am reading similar insulation/draftyness and climate (IL). I went with the NC30 and boy am I glad I did. In my setup I run the stove in the basement as suppliment to propane use. All said and done, I always like the analogy that you can build a small fire in a large stove. I have no problem running the NC30 on half loads, which would be equalivant to full loads of the 13. Then when it comes to the middle of winter and I need more heat, I load the 30 all the way up and let it go to town. Hope this helps.

 

[jdadd23]

Thanks for the input so far. I will try to attach a drawn image of our basic layout. Our kitchen is around 400 sq ft and is connected to our living room/school/dining area by an archway that I'd guess to be about 3 ft wide. The living room area is around 670 sq ft. Our master bedroom is off the other side of the kitchen and attached by a standard pocket door. Bedrooms and bath are down a 3 ft wide/15 ft long hallway which ultimately runs into our master bedroom. The house is on a crawl space.

As an HVAC guy, I also wondered whether installing an ECM motor to run a low speed fan would be an option to circulate the air through our existing duct system. The ECM would run at a much lower speed than the regular furnace fan and use less electricity. I have recently added more insulation to the attic and areas where the ductwork runs to help minimize heat loss in those areas. Not sure if the ECM is advisable for circulating air with a wood stove though.

 

[Mrs. Krabappel]

The 30 for the burn times.

 

[tickbitty]

Get the big one. That's what they will all say, and they will be right.

 

[begreen]

That's going to be a challenge. Unless you move some cooler air into the kitchen area that room is going to be quite hot, even with just the 13NC. Using the furnace ductwork is often unsuccessful due to heat losses. You might do much better to have a fan on the floor in the living room pointed toward the kitchen opening. That will push cooler LR air into the kitchen which in turn will pull hot air into the space at the top of the door way.

 

[Dix]

Thanks for the input so far. I will try to attach a drawn image of our basic layout. Our kitchen is around 400 sq ft and is connected to our living room/school/dining area by an archway that I'd guess to be about 3 ft wide. The living room area is around 670 sq ft. Our master bedroom is off the other side of the kitchen and attached by a standard pocket door. Bedrooms and bath are down a 3 ft wide/15 ft long hallway which ultimately runs into our master bedroom. The house is on a crawl space.

As an HVAC guy, I also wondered whether installing an ECM motor to run a low speed fan would be an option to circulate the air through our existing duct system. The ECM would run at a much lower speed than the regular furnace fan and use less electricity. I have recently added more insulation to the attic and areas where the ductwork runs to help minimize heat loss in those areas. Not sure if the ECM is advisable for circulating air with a wood stove though.

Is that 2 doorways in & out of the master??

That being asked, while I love my 13, and it does the job it has to do, it's firebox is not large. Mine heats 800 SF amply, but it's a max of 5 hours of real heat output. Due to the house layout, it's 2 stoves for me

I'd love to have a 30

Welcome to the forums !

 

[BobUrban]

I would not even question this choice and go with the 30. With wood under 20 percent it burns just fine on 1/2 loads and with that much SQ' you are inevitably going to want/need all the 30 can give for some parts of the winter. No matter what stove you put in there you will have a really warm kitchen from time to time trying to heat the house with it but until you have the stove in place and start experimenting with convection you wont know how hot or how well it will circulate. Just like pole barns - decide what you need and then go one size larger seems to be the best choice. You will be much happier with a hot room and warm house than a warm room and cool house.

I am guessing with the two doors in the master you will be able to get a nice circulating convection going with 1-2 strategically placed fans and even the heat out nicely.

 

[blazincajun]

Does the archway go all the way to the ceiling? You may find that by ditching the archway (i.e., squaring the opening up) you will have much better convection into the kitchen area; otherwise, a larger heater will only make the living room unbearable. On a more extreme tactic, if the wall is loadbearing you could just add a beam in the attic and remove the complete wall. We keep our bedroom closed 98% of the time but leave the girls rooms open for studying.

 

[El Finko]

JD, welcome. Go with the 30. You'll need the extra burn time if you want to heat solely with wood.

As far as circulation- does your duct work run through the crawl space with registers on the floor? If so, I'd modifying that existing ducting into a cold air return that sucks cold air from the floor in each room and deposits it all back in the kitchen right next to the stove. Then you needn't worry about heat loss in your ducts, and the warm air will be pulled into each room.

 

[begreen]

That will work, but heat loss is still critical when pulling 70F air through a duct that is in 10F ambient space. If you chose to run a return duct as described be sure it is very well insulated.

 

[rideau]

Yes, during the day I'd keep the two doors to the MB open, have a small fan on the floor in the MBR pointing at the stove.

Would also, if necessary, put similar fans on floor in the two ancillary bedrooms, pointing into the hall. Clip on fans can be very handy for this, if you have an appropriate place in the bedrooms for clipping the fan.

And if you find the home too hot with the NC 30 on a half load, then open the door to the entryway occasionally. That will get a breeze going and cool things down quickly.

If you find the NC 30 really keeps the kitchen too warm, see if you can find a location in the kitchen/dining area to put a regular home fan, such as one uses on a hot summer day, and set it up blowing at the stove, as well. That will help move heat off the stove and cool things down.

 

[Jdog]

I have the 13 and my house is right at 1800sq/ft it will keep the place at 75 with out a problem when we dropped to -20 wc and -11 i was worried it wouldnt keep up but she did and with ease the only thing i regret is burn times the 30 will out power the 13 in that area by alot but the 13 will with out a dought heat your house easy its a great heater you cant go wrong with either one of them really.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

ID get a 30 ,you can always run a half load in the shoulder season. I have a 2.0 CU FT stove and it wants to constantly be fed small amounts of wood.

 

[jdadd23]

Thanks for all the input and suggestions. It is great to get advice from those who are more experienced with wood stoves. It seems like most are saying to go with the 30, but to be aware of the potential pitfalls?

There are indeed two doors on the master, so hopefully that would be helpful in circulating air via the methods mentioned here. I have no problem with using fans as necessary through the house.

Our ductwork runs through the attic. I have just recently blown in more insulation up there and around all the ducts so hopefully that will aid in minimizing heat loss if I decide to try to circulate air that way.

As far as the archway, I'm not sure what our options would be there. It appears that wall was originally the back side of the house (block wall) before the kitchen and master/bath were added on. Changing anything there would probably be more of an undertaking than I want to mess with.

Thanks again. Now I'm just waiting on permit approval from our building department and then we will be able to move forward. I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way.

 

[blel]

I wish Englander made a stove between the 13 and 30. I have a 13 and it's great but wish for a little more burn time.

 

[BrowningBAR]

We are choosing to install the stove there because the previous owners had one and there is a newer chimney already in place that meets the specs for the Englander. After seeing the propane cost to just keep the house in the 50-60 degree range, I now understand why they had a wood stove!

I'm assuming your insulation is bad and you have a lot of drafts in the house. Get the 30 so you aren't working the 13 hard. Being too warm in the winter is easily remedied. Being cold during the winter is not, and it sucks.

 

[BobUrban]

Being too warm in the winter is easily remedied. Being cold during the winter is not, and it sucks.

and you can take that statement to the bank!

Opening a window in January is fun and funny - the alternative - not so much

 

[begreen]

This is from a man who isn't happy when temps drop below 85F in the house.