Englander vs Napoleon

[meatis20b]

Just looking for some input on which one is better. Debating on the englander 30-bc or th napoleon 1450. Any info is appreciated

 

[BrowningBAR]

Just looking for some input on which one is better. Debating on the englander 30-bc or th napoleon 1450. Any info is appreciated

The 30NC is a larger stove, will produce more heat, and will have longer burn times. The Enlgander stove has a claimed 3.5 cu ft firebox vs. Napoleon's 2.25 cu ft firebox.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Check to make sure you are getting a complete stove when you look at prices. I checked out a N dealer and they wanted to sell the door as an option. I'm not sure if this is common practice or not. Apples to apples and all that...

Matt

 

[BrowningBAR]

Check to make sure you are getting a complete stove when you look at prices. I checked out a N dealer and they wanted to sell the door as an option. I'm not sure if this is common practice or not. Apples to apples and all that...

Matt

From what I've seen online a lot of resellers do that with the Napoleons, Osburns and a few others. I find to be a bit lame.

 

[begreen]

You would have to compare the 30NC to the Nappy 1900 for equal capacity. Both are good stoves. The Napoleon has full jacket shields built-in which helps reduce clearances if that is important. It also has more trim options.

 

[meatis20b]

Thanks for the info everybody

 

[begreen]

Englander has excellent support and you get a free virtual tshirt.

 

[zknowlto]

Englander vs Napoleon?

If I remember my history, didn't the Duke of Wellington decide this definitively at the battle of Waterloo?

 

[k9brain]

While looking for stoves I considered the Englander (and many others) before buying the Napoleon. The Nap looked more finished and had more options for upgrades. This would be, after all, sitting in my living room. The Englander had weld splatter on the top and sides, less elegant legs/ pedestal and other details that didn't affect performance only the price. I'm also under the mistaken impression that the extra money is well spent, so buy the more expensive model.

If you really want a true comparison check out the Timber Wolf series, that's the budget line of Napoleon stoves.

Overall I'm very happy with my stove and plan on getting more heat out of it this winter with better wood and more burning experience. I wouldn't think that there is a huge difference in performance btween the two. They are both well made stoves.

 

[KB007]

We have a 1450 in the basement. Well made, looks nice in basic black (Henry Ford would aprove I think...)

Looking back, I would have preferred a bigger firebox mostly for longer burn times. It did heat our 1800 + 1800 sqft bungalow (Main + basement) for a year before we put in the Regency I3100 upstairs, but struggled a bit on -30 nights and I found I was filling it too often. Price point was good for a top quality unit.

The Nap 1900 is quite a bit more expensive, it's one of their nicer model with all the bells and whistles, but is a larger firebox. Lot's of folks on here like the NC-30s, seems to have a good following and a large box. If I had a local supplier available when I bought the 1450, I might have leaned the other way to the NC-30.

 

[FyreBug]

Check to make sure you are getting a complete stove when you look at prices. I checked out a N dealer and they wanted to sell the door as an option. I'm not sure if this is common practice or not. Apples to apples and all that...

Matt

From what I've seen online a lot of resellers do that with the Napoleons, Osburns and a few others. I find to be a bit lame.

Englander, US Stove, Vovelzang, Drolet, GHP, Century, Flame etc... are all big box store brands and as such come 'all black' complete with very few options. That's what the consumers who buy in those stores want.

Napoleon, Lopi, Osburn, Regency, PE etc... are all 'boutique' or specialty retailer brands and as such offer the consumers more choices. ie. ped vs legs, door overlays, installation, support etc... Quality, price, warranty are also higher in those brands. That's what that consumer base wants.

Nothing lame about that.

Therefore, it's not necessarily a fair question to ask which one is better. Understand, the difference between those 2 approach to the market. Figure out what your budget is & where you are comfortable to shop. A fair comparison between stoves is the cu ft which provides you with an approximate size. I understand based on other Threads the 3.5 cu ft of the Englander might be over stated but ask anyone here and they will tell you its a great stove.

 

[leeave96]

Englander, US Stove, Vovelzang, Drolet, GHP, Century, Flame etc... are all big box store brands and as such come 'all black' complete with very few options. That's what the consumers who buy in those stores want.

Napoleon, Lopi, Osburn, Regency, PE etc... are all 'boutique' or specialty retailer brands and as such offer the consumers more choices. ie. ped vs legs, door overlays, installation, support etc... Quality, price, warranty are also higher in those brands. That's what that consumer base wants.

Englander offers both pedistal and legs on the 30, as well as door overlays and some of the best suppport in the industry - factory direct like Woodstock. I would stack their quality up against any brand too.

To me a steel plate stove is a steel plate stove. If you want a quality stove for fraction of the price with outstanding support and a great quality reputation, Englander falls into that catagory.

Bill

 

[FyreBug]

Englander, US Stove, Vovelzang, Drolet, GHP, Century, Flame etc... are all big box store brands and as such come 'all black' complete with very few options. That's what the consumers who buy in those stores want.

Napoleon, Lopi, Osburn, Regency, PE etc... are all 'boutique' or specialty retailer brands and as such offer the consumers more choices. ie. ped vs legs, door overlays, installation, support etc... Quality, price, warranty are also higher in those brands. That's what that consumer base wants.

Englander offers both pedistal and legs on the 30, as well as door overlays and some of the best suppport in the industry - factory direct like Woodstock. I would stack their quality up against any brand too.

To me a steel plate stove is a steel plate stove. If you want a quality stove for fraction of the price with outstanding support and a great quality reputation, Englander falls into that catagory.

Bill

This was in response to someone who said it was 'lame' to offer those choices. Never argued the point Englander is a great product. However.... You will typically find thicker plate, better bricks, baffles, warranties etc... on specialty retailer brands. Don't believe me, Put an Osburn 2400 and Englander 30 side by side and come back and tell me what you see.

Finally, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If is up to each individual to decide what is important to them. Some of them will prefer a brand over another for a variety of reasons and cost is not always the determining factor.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Englander, US Stove, Vovelzang, Drolet, GHP, Century, Flame etc... are all big box store brands and as such come 'all black' complete with very few options. That's what the consumers who buy in those stores want.

Napoleon, Lopi, Osburn, Regency, PE etc... are all 'boutique' or specialty retailer brands and as such offer the consumers more choices. ie. ped vs legs, door overlays, installation, support etc... Quality, price, warranty are also higher in those brands. That's what that consumer base wants.

Englander offers both pedistal and legs on the 30, as well as door overlays and some of the best suppport in the industry - factory direct like Woodstock. I would stack their quality up against any brand too.

To me a steel plate stove is a steel plate stove. If you want a quality stove for fraction of the price with outstanding support and a great quality reputation, Englander falls into that catagory.

Bill

This was in response to someone who said it was 'lame' to offer those choices. Never argued the point Englander is a great product. However.... You will typically find thicker plate, better bricks, baffles, warranties etc... on specialty retailer brands. Don't believe me, Put an Osburn 2400 and Englander 30 side by side and come back and tell me what you see.

Finally, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If is up to each individual to decide what is important to them. Some of them will prefer a brand over another for a variety of reasons and cost is not always the determining factor.

You misunderstood my 'lame' comment. To state that a stove costs '$XXXX.XX' is miss-leading and lame when it turns out you need to add on another $XXX.XX because the door isn't included.

 

[begreen]

Yes, with a plug like that, it "Had Better Live Up To The Hype". LOL. They are good stoves, but there are heavier ones on the market and some with a more solid baffle system. What Englander provides is great value and service. And that is definitely a strong plus.

Hey Bert, I have an Osburn question. It is very rare to hear a complaint about them, but two we saw here totally perplexed us. They were both about failed paint jobs. The paint looked ok, but either outgassed or put tiny particles of soot in the air, even after a season of use. I think both of these stoves were sent back to the plant for analysis. Do you know if they ever figured out what the problem was? They presented one of the odder problems we have seen here.

 

[FyreBug]

Yes, with a plug like that, it "Had Better Live Up To The Hype". LOL. They are good stoves, but there are heavier ones on the market and some with a more solid baffle system. What Englander provides is great value and service. And that is definitely a strong plus.

Hey Bert, I have an Osburn question. It is very rare to hear a complaint about them, but two we saw here totally perplexed us. They were both about failed paint jobs. The paint looked ok, but either outgassed or put tiny particles of soot in the air, even after a season of use. I think both of these stoves were sent back to the plant for analysis. Do you know if they ever figured out what the problem was? They presented one of the odder problems we have seen here.

I just searched the system and couldn't find anything. I also asked a few people and it doesn't ring a bell. If you can give me a few more details with the dealer and/or Distributor info and i'll chase it down. PM me if its more convenient.

A word on the Osburn baffle systems. You are correct it is not steel and therefore not as solid. Which should not be an issue since no one go out of their way to step on a baffle.

However, it is 'C' Cast material which is a ceramic composite casted baffle. The reason we use it is because we found it outperformed any material out there in our furnaces where higher temps will more readily degrade baffle materials. It does not warp & crack, reflect heat better toward your secondaries & outperforms Vermiculite in Strength, insulation, abrasion resistance, resistance to shrinking, weight loss & environmental exposure. Heat performance up to 2600 F. It is also much more expensive that is why we put it on Osburn. It was developed from the space shuttle belly tiles technology (not identical). BTW we have no warranty issues with C Cast.

 

[begreen]

One was Swedishchef's: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/53448/

The other was way back, I haven't found it yet. This nice lady had a stove that would film up her curtains and walls with a dark oily substance. It was a long thread and after querying you could see that she knew had to burn correctly and was not anywhere near overfiring the stove. She had multiple visits from her dealer who tried all sorts of tricks, but nothing worked. Amazingly she kept a pretty good attitude about the problem and eventually the stove was authorized for exchange by the dealer. New stove went in and voila, no problems. I think that was the last we heard from her.

 

[BrotherBart]

All good stoves. But I chuckle at Napoleon being called a "boutique" stove. Look online and everybody but 7-11 sells them.

As to thicker steel, Naps are made out of 3/16" plate just like a bazillion others.

Buy the one ya like to look at.

 

[FyreBug]

One was Swedishchef's: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/53448/

The other was way back, I haven't found it yet. This nice lady had a stove that would film up her curtains and walls with a dark oily substance. It was a long thread and after querying you could see that she knew had to burn correctly and was not anywhere near overfiring the stove. She had multiple visits from her dealer who tried all sorts of tricks, but nothing worked. Amazingly she kept a pretty good attitude about the problem and eventually the stove was authorized for exchange by the dealer. New stove went in and voila, no problems. I think that was the last we heard from her.

Thanks, Just PM'd Swedi.. and will track down the results.

 

[begreen]

Yeah, that is a funny one. I always thought of Napoleon as a value stove. Thicker steel comes with some of the stoves from SBI, Travis, PE.

 

[FyreBug]

Yeah, that is a funny one. I always thought of Napoleon as a value stove. Thicker steel comes with some of the stoves from SBI, Travis, PE.

Nap doesn't sell in big box stores but in specialty retailers (and etailers). That's why I classed them with those other brands.

 

[cmonSTART]

Yeah, that is a funny one. I always thought of Napoleon as a value stove. Thicker steel comes with some of the stoves from SBI, Travis, PE.

Nap doesn't sell in big box stores but in specialty retailers (and etailers). That's why I classed them with those other brands.

I bet that changes soon though. I get the feeling they are heading that way. It's one reason I'm trying to phase them out of our lineup.

 

[Swedishchef]

I had a problem with my stove and will PM Fyrebug. It wasn't necessarily the company giving me grief. It was more my installer/seller. He doesn't have a showroom, he simply orders what you want. His distributor was complete SH@T. I know of dealers that got rid of Osburn because of the same distributor, not because of the lack of quality in the stoves.

All that to say Fyrebug hit the nail on the head when comparing the two.

Andrew

 

[FyreBug]

One was Swedishchef's: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/53448/

The other was way back, I haven't found it yet. This nice lady had a stove that would film up her curtains and walls with a dark oily substance. It was a long thread and after querying you could see that she knew had to burn correctly and was not anywhere near overfiring the stove. She had multiple visits from her dealer who tried all sorts of tricks, but nothing worked. Amazingly she kept a pretty good attitude about the problem and eventually the stove was authorized for exchange by the dealer. New stove went in and voila, no problems. I think that was the last we heard from her.

Thanks, Just PM'd Swedi.. and will track down the results.

Followed up on both of these issues and this is what tech support came with:

"We replaced the stove with an Osburn 2300 and I haven’t heard anything negative as of yet. This is almost 14 months ago. The ‘’smelly stove’’ was sold internally as used and it too I haven’t heard any negative comments. As the original reason for the smell I’m not quite certain we came to an unanimous conclusion. Bad steel or paint ?"

The point is we provided the customers with a new stove. We sold both stoves at a discount to our employees who have not reported any further issues.

 

[Swedishchef]

It was certainly appreciated. No more smells coming from the new stove: I think it was a simply bad batch of paint or steel. Did they mention that they had never seen this kind of problem before? They mentioned it to me....

Thanks again Bert! I PM'd you concerning 2300 maintenance..

Thanks again for all your great assistance!

Andrew