Englander VS PE

[Dustin]

I'm sure this has been gone over time, and time again.


After tons of help from this website, iv'e decided to go for a free standing stove, on my exsisting hearth. (line the chimney)


1700 square foot tri-level ranch, BAD WINDOWS, Crappy insulation. open floor plan with a huge open stairwell. I'm going to put the stove on the bottom floor, with hopes of heating that, and the main floor.


Englarder dudes, what do you like? I like the price...


Summit dudes, what do you like? if I get the Summt, or an Aldera T6, which both are rated for 3000 square feet, will that be too much? Will I just have a smokey burn all the time?

I would rather have a big stove, with lots of punch for those cold nights, we don't get many, but we get them. And i'm looking for some seriously long burn times with softwoods.


Maybe I need a cat stove!!

 

[begreen]

The T6 at 3 cu ft is .5 cu ft smaller than the Englander 30 NC. I haven't run the Englander, but trust the many good reports that have been posted about this stove. It is a serious heater and it would be good to know how well it burns in the milder temps typical in Western OR. I can say that the T6 is a well behaved stove that works well with a half load of wood as well as with a full load. It will cruise at 500 or 700. All depends on how much fuel you want to feed the stove.

The big question is, how are you intending to tie a liner into the pre-fab fireplace flue if you install a freestanding stove?

 

[Dustin]

The T6 at 3 cu ft is .5 cu ft smaller than the Englander 30 NC. I haven't run the Englander, but trust the many good reports that have been posted about this stove. I can say that the T6 is a well behaved stove that works well with a half load of wood as well as with a full load. It will cruise at 500 or 700. All depends on how much fuel you want to feed the stove.

The big question is, how are you intending to tie a liner into the pre-fab fireplace flue if you install a freestanding stove?

I should have clarified


the fireplace, is all masonry, with a masory wall, and a tile lined masonry chimney. The problem is, the house is built in 1969, and I don't trust the exsisting tile liners, would rather give it a full line for piece of mind.

I think, I might have to close of the existing fireplace opening, and enter the chimney and connect to the liner maybe mid way up

 

[SlyFerret]

I burn an Englander 30-NC, so I might be a little biased. It's been a fantastic stove for me. Easy to operate, easy to get long burn times out of, and easy to to get serious heat out of. Not a fancy stove, but it's a hard value to beat. I have never regretted my decision. Quite the opposite, I've frequently been thankful that I made the right choice.

I don't have any experience with PE, but from what I understand, they are SOLID stoves. Honestly, I don't think you could go wrong with either PE or Englander.

If you do go Englander, I would go with the 30. The 13 is a great stove, but if you've got bad windows and poor insulation, it's probably better to go bigger. My place is 1600 sqft, pretty well insulated, with decent windows. I've had to learn how to control the output of my stove. Once I got the hang of it though, it's been great.

Either way, it's the right time of year to catch the close out prices as retailers are trying to get their shelves ready for spring. I've already seen a few people post that they've picked up Englanders for nearly half price this season.

-SF

 

[begreen]

The T6 at 3 cu ft is .5 cu ft smaller than the Englander 30 NC. I haven't run the Englander, but trust the many good reports that have been posted about this stove. I can say that the T6 is a well behaved stove that works well with a half load of wood as well as with a full load. It will cruise at 500 or 700. All depends on how much fuel you want to feed the stove.

The big question is, how are you intending to tie a liner into the pre-fab fireplace flue if you install a freestanding stove?

I should have clarified


the fireplace, is all masonry, with a masory wall, and a tile lined masonry chimney. The problem is, the house is built in 1969, and I don't trust the exsisting tile liners, would rather give it a full line for piece of mind.

I think, I might have to close of the existing fireplace opening, and enter the chimney and connect to the liner maybe mid way up

Now I'm confused. The picassa pictures showed two metal lined chimneys. Which fireplace/level has the zero-clearance unit? Or am I confusing this house with another thread entirely? (It happens.)

 

[karl]

They both are comparable stoves. The Englander is a little cheaper, maybe alot cheaper if you can find on sale at one of the big box stores right now. The Summit is prettier.

I get crazy long burn times out of my Summit insert. It also will burn crappy wood pretty well, and it's easy to use.

 

[BrotherBart]

As to firebox size the 30 and the Summit are for all intents and purposes the same size. Both manuals recommend not loading higher than the top of the firebricks, which are the same size, so they are both 3.0 CF fireboxes. The size difference is in the combustion space above the load below the baffle. The Summit is made of thicker steel which mostly comes into play in warp resistance. The 30 has some engineering that stiffens the walls and top of the firebox that addresses this. The Summit has replaceable rails for the firebrick and baffle while the ESW units are welded into the stove body. The Summit has what appears to be an effective ash pan setup where the 30 has one that honestly is only there so it can be said that it has one. It is small and hard to use. Since I think ash pans are a useless pain in the butt it makes no difference to me. The door latch on the 30 is a basic time tested design for ESW but isn't the positive latch type like the PE stoves. The PE stoves have stainless steel baffles with the re-burn holes made into the baffle. The ESW stoves use two piece ceramic fiber board and four stainless steel burn tubes. Both are fine function wise and you can wreck either one by trying to jam too many splits too high in the firebox. With the PE stove the baffle has a lifetime warranty but the ESW setup would require only the purchase of the tube you bent or the board you knocked a hole through. The PE stoves are designed for burning N/S. The ESW stoves are designed for burning E/W. While I predominately burn N/S in the 30 it is more efficient when burned E/W but a 20 inch deep firebox is a pain in the butt to load the back of the firebox E/W with scorching hot coals in the stove.

Both good stoves and should get the job done for ya for a long, long time.

 

[Dustin]

BeGreen my friend, you have me confused with another thread no zero clearance fireplaces in my house! My downstairs fireplace currently has an old Kodiak smoke dragon, installed NOT up to code.


Brother Bart, I searched around last night for pictures of your stove burning, and well, just pictures of the install. May you point me in the right direction?


D/F

 

[BrotherBart]

Brother Bart, I searched around last night for pictures of your stove burning, and well, just pictures of the install. May you point me in the right direction?


D/F

They are scattered around the forum. I will PM them to you so as to not eat up more storage space here.

 

[begreen]

BeGreen my friend, you have me confused with another thread no zero clearance fireplaces in my house! My downstairs fireplace currently has an old Kodiak smoke dragon, installed NOT up to code.


Brother Bart, I searched around last night for pictures of your stove burning, and well, just pictures of the install. May you point me in the right direction?

Well, it happens. When I get tired all posts start blurring together. I was mixing your installation up with ratmandu's. Turned off the computer after posting that one.

 

[ICY99]

One thing also to consider is the required hearth R-value.

Englander NC-30 requires hearth R=1.5 min

Summit requires only non-combustible hearth.

 

[begreen]

All things considered they are similar stoves, as are the big Avalon/Lopi, Regency and Quad models. I'm not too enamored with the PE ash pan chute and FWIW, I usually burn E/W in the big guy. But maybe that's just me. I do like the secondary manifold design and the cast iron jacket. The stove is definitely a convector as opposed to a radiant design of other stoves. That's what sets the stove apart for me.

 

[karri0n]

Rick/BG/PE user,


Can you explain the "positive latch" that you are talking about on the PE stoves?

 

[karl]

Rick/BG/PE user,


Can you explain the "positive latch" that you are talking about on the PE stoves?

I'd like to hear about this too, and I own a PE Summit. It's a handle that you use to close the door. Then you turn the handle and it engages a lip on the stove and locks the door shut. I assumed all manufactuers had the same thing or something close to it.

 

[Jimbob]

The P.E. stoves are nice, and VERY well built. I don't really know anything about the Englanders, except they cost less. A lot of people on here seem to like them.
Here is another stove to look for:
http://century-heating.com/product.aspx?CategoId=1&Id=521
I think they cost less than the Englander stoves.

You could use the $$$ you save by buying a cheaper stove to put toward better windows, which will definitely help if they are really that BAD.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

you all know my opinion.... ;-)

 

[Jfk4th]

OK here I go.
I had a Summit for a year and then because I was obsessed with my father in laws Avalon Olympic, I sold it and bought the Avalon last April. I do miss the PE though, my brother in law has the Summit so whenever I go there I smile and think about the good old days of the front end loading stove...Ohhhhh No rolling logs like my Avalon.....Long burn times with the Summit( I'll get there with my Olympic). The EBT, which really does not help the way I burned but was cool anyway....
I like the heat that huge stove could put out. It would get to 80 in my house like no time. Plus I stuffed in the morning with nice size 18 inch logs and when I got home from work still plenty of heat (again I'll get there, I need to cut smaller splits this year so I can N/S load next year/this fall) I didn't like the look of the stove as compard to other stoves I have had but again I think it was really well built and worth every penny. I also think the T-6 is a great stove. I am actually one of the few I guess that loves the ash pan, I think it is a great design (the trap door). It is far better than the Avalons system, which gets ash on the floor every time you pull out the ash pan. Why wouldn't Travis Industries make a way you could completely close it, WTH? The whole point of an ash pan is so you don't ash in the room/house...Ok I'll stop ranting

I also love the fact that on the PE you just simply take out the baffle and viola you clean the chimney easily, no removing tons of tubes, bricks, etc.....Are you listening Quadra-Fire, are you listening? This is why I hate cleaning my Quad 5100 insert, pain in ass to open everything up to clean the pipes. PE is one simple plug, pull it out and Viola again clean the chimney, watch the brown stuff fall into the firebox......

OK now for the Englander, or Timberline, or Summer Heats, or whatever you want to call it. Now I have only had this for a year too and it is in my Dad's cabin so again my time is limited.
My likes: Deal of a lifetime, 499 last year end of season at LOWES. Big firebox, like the Summit, like the Olympic. Front to back loading or I guess E/W if you want to cut smaller splits. Clearance to combustibles not as good as PE Summit, which was a little bit of a problem in my Dads cabin, we got through it. Ash plug is OK but not as good as the PE trap door in my book. But again for the money ii is nice to have an ash pan, Bravo Englander I say anyway! Burn times were a little less but that could me, not the stove. I would easily get 8-9 hours with the Summit, it was a little more difficult to get that same 8-9 hours, again it could be me and my less experience with the Englander. Harder to clean the chimney pipe with the Englander but not as hard as some other stoves...Not as easy as the PE of course. Great heat output and great secondary burns with the Englander, some of the prettiest flames I have ever seen...

So overall for the money the Englander is better (499 is again a sweet deal as compared to 2100 dollars for the PE Summit with gold door and ash pan, if you have the extra cash go for the Summit. I myself like to clean my Chimney once a month for peace of mind so I like the feature of the PE and the Avalon Olympic. I just open the top by pass damper on the Olympic, go outside and climb on the roof, scrub the hell out the pipe, and walk back down the ladder, Viola all soot on my face and I am done :cheese:

I am sure I left many things out but hope this helps