Enviro Boston 1200 versus PE T4 / T5

[Gray Rock Farm]

Hi -

We've recently added a new family room on our cape style home, and I would like to install a wood stove. We currently have a Jotul Winterport insert in our fireplace (now in the dining room) - to be honest, I have been pretty disappointed in it. Before the addition, our house was approx 1600 sf, with a reasonably open floor plan, but I couldn't really get the room hot without burning for 4 hours or so and with the fans on high (they are VERY loud). The fire burns well - it burns hot - I just don't get as much heat as I thought I would. Seems that the larger Jotul insert, the Kennebeck, has much better, quieter fans that really help. Anyways, I am nervous about investing in another stove, but I hope that with a freestanding style and larger capacity I can get the heat that I want.

The room it's going into is 16x24', with exterior walls on 3 sides, and good sized windows. The ceilings are 7.5' high. The room is open at the opposite end of where the stove will be - about 6' opening.

I was primarily looking at the PE T4/T5 because of the really low clearance requirements. But when I went to the dealer, I really liked the looks of the Enviro Boston 1200. The cast seemed a bit higher quality, and I the legs were a bit beefier - the PE had rather skinny feet. Also interesting is that while the Enviro Boston has 8" clearance at the corners (versus 3"/4" on the T5/T4) it has a lower hearth requirement in front.

Characteristics that are important to me are:

1. Appearance - must look gorgeous in the corner of the room.
2. Burn time - our winterport doesn't get as much use as it should because it really doesn't burn for more than 4-5 hours - at 6 hours it is still warm, but not much more.
3. Clearance - the further I can shove it into the corner the better
4. heat! I want to make the room toasty warm for my wife.

Lastly, I live 30 miles west of Boston, MA. Our original house was built in 1966 (insulated walls, replacement windows, etc) and the addition is 1 year old with 2x6 walls.


Any opinions on which stove?

 

[BrotherBart]

Both stoves are great quality and good heaters. Burn time and heat life for both are going to be dictated by the firebox size and your burning habits. Let the esthetics you are looking for, firebox size and clearances you need for your installation be the driving forces. You are going to love either stove. Neither one is going to be cranking out a ton of heat after eight hours but they also won't be trapping heat inside the fireplace like the insert does.

And by the way, you will get better heating and performance out of that Winterport by letting it get good and warmed up before you turn on the blower. And then just turn it on low to medium. Rather than high.

 

[Gray Rock Farm]

Both stoves are great quality and good heaters. Burn time and heat life for both are going to be dictated by the firebox size and your burning habits. Let the esthetics you are looking for, firebox size and clearances you need for your installation be the driving forces. You are going to love either stove. Neither one is going to be cranking out a ton of heat after eight hours but they also won't be trapping heat inside the fireplace like the insert does.

And by the way, you will get better heating and performance out of that Winterport by letting it get good and warmed up before you turn on the blower. And then just turn it on low to medium. Rather than high.

Thanks for the input. Regarding the Winterport, I don't actually ever turn the fan up on high.... It's way too loud! At medium flow, you actually have to put a piece of paper in front of it to even see any air movement.... I've always suspected something to be wrong with the fans/airflow - just can't figure out what. We've basically settled on using it to have a pretty fire every now and then. BTW - in terms of temperatures - my thermometer on the front typcially reads 400-500 degrees, so I know I am getting good burns.

 

[dafattkidd]

As for the original question, I agree with BB. But I have some questions about the Jotul you currently have. You're disappointed in the heat output. There are some common issues that may be contributing to the poor performance of such a high quality unit. Forgive me for this list of questions, but it may be worth asking if you're so unhappy with a quality insert. Is there a liner going from the unit all the way to the top of the chimney? Is the top of the chimney sealed with only an opening for the liner and an appropriate cap? Is a block off plate installed? Is the wood you are burning seasoned for at least a full year?

i ask this because I had an inferior unit, a Napoleon 1101 with a 1.7 cf firebox and got a ton of heat out of the unit after these issues were addressed. Good Luck!

 

[kingquad]

I had an Enviro 1700 insert and it was a beast. I loved it. When I was making my final decision on which to purchase, I choose the Enviro cause of it's larger firebox over the PE super. I got better burn times than what PE super owners commonly report here, but I also had 25% more firebox. With your house being over 1600 sqft, the 1700 would easily be up to the task if you have an open floor plan.

The Boston 1200 is about the same size as the PE T5, so I would expect similar performance with a slight edge possibly going to the t5. The 1200 is an E/W loader and the t5 is a N/S. My 1700 could be loaded either way. The t5 has a more robust baffle system, but I never had problems with my Enviro in the 2 years that I owned it. The t5 will have better clearances.

If you are looking for max BTU's and burntimes, then get the Boston 1700 if you can spare the space. None of these models will disappoint though. Let us know what you choose.

 

[Gray Rock Farm]

As for the original question, I agree with BB. But I have some questions about the Jotul you currently have. You're disappointed in the heat output. There are some common issues that may be contributing to the poor performance of such a high quality unit. Forgive me for this list of questions, but it may be worth asking if you're so unhappy with a quality insert. Is there a liner going from the unit all the way to the top of the chimney? Is the top of the chimney sealed with only an opening for the liner and an appropriate cap? Is a block off plate installed? Is the wood you are burning seasoned for at least a full year?

i ask this because I had an inferior unit, a Napoleon 1101 with a 1.7 cf firebox and got a ton of heat out of the unit after these issues were addressed. Good Luck!

Thanks for your concerns. Regarding your questions....

1. The wood we burn is seasoned at least 1 year - most of it has been split and stacked on my property for longer. When we first got the stove, we were burning greener wood - I know what that is like! I ended up trading a neighbor for some well seasoned wood to test and what a difference! Needless to say, the wood I burned last winter is very dry. Also, as I mentioned, I can get a good hot fire - it just doesn't warm the room up much unless you stand within 6 feet of the insert.

2. We have a stainless liner and cap running all the way up the chimney.

Now for the tougher ones....

3. I don't recall if the top of the chimney is sealed - is this something that would have come with the liner kit? How would I check? Can I do so with a visual inspection? (raining today.... might have to wait - I am heading out of town tonight for a couple of days)

4. What exactly is a block off plate? I assume it is blocking immediately above the insert to keep heat from going up the chimney? Unless the liner or insert came with something, it probably is not installed. At the same time, give the tolerances are so tight on the install, I am not sure I could get in there to install anything...... Any tips?

Lastly, I have worked with the dealer where I purchased the stove on the issue, although not since the 1st season we had the stove (3 seasons ago). We closed the doors upstairs, moved our thermostat, and lots of other little things.

Thanks again.

 

[jeff_t]

That is exactly what a block off plate is. If you don't have one, that is likely your biggest issue. They are usually fashioned from simple sheet metal. You can also insulate it. It would probably involve pulling the insert out.

 

[begreen]

From what has been described I would be leaning toward the larger Boston 1700 or Alderlea T5 if either would fit, though the Kennebec should work well too.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Gray Rock, Wow, all your choices are good ones!! That Winterport is a nice little insert- good for about 1000 sqft (yes I know Jotul rates it more) but remember their ratings are a generality. The PE and Enviro both our main lines at our store- great choices! I think the PE T5 will give a bit longer burn time than the 1200, you move up to the 1700 (which is the T5 complement) I'd lean towards the Enviro- but is about 300-400 dollars more.... heatwise the 1200 is up to about 1200-1500 sqft, the 1700/T5 about 1000-2000 sqft. I burn the 1700 Kodiak (steel free standing), what beautiful burning stoves- but so is the Alderleas Either choice will be great- let us know what you got! Didn't help much, but if clearance is main issue- PE. If looks/beautiful burning both!

Good luck Stovelark
Enviro 1700 Kodiak FS
Enviro EF3 pellet FS
Enviro Empress AC FPI (guess I like Enviro stoves...)

 

[Gray Rock Farm]

OK - I checked the top of the chimney and the there is a plate that seals off the space outside of the liner. Considering this, what purpose does the blocking plate at the bottom serve? I am relectant to install because I am not sure I can get in there to put something in properly.....

 

[Gray Rock Farm]

OK - I checked the top of the chimney and the there is a plate that seals off the space outside of the liner. Considering this, what purpose does the blocking plate at the bottom serve? I am relectant to install because I am not sure I can get in there to put something in properly.....

A bit more info... I pulled off the surround and confirmed that there is not a blocking plate. I also asked the guys at the stove shop (not the one where I purchased) and they said that with a full liner, which I have, there is no need for a blocking plate. However, they did say I could stuff in some fiberglass insulation.

As I was thinking about how I heat my house, my existing insert is in a much better place than where I was considering putting the freestanding stove. I also re-took dimensions of my fireplace, and it looks like with pull down collar for the liner I can fit a PE T5 insert in my fireplace! So back to the stove shop I went today to re-consider a bigger insert. (bigger insert will cost a couple thousand less than installing a new freestanding stove!)

Looking at the inserts - I am now considering 2.

PE T5
Vermont Castings Montpelier

I know the T5 will put out more heat, but I am not sold on its look. I found the overall fit and finish to be much less than the VC unit. Here is my current assessment comparing the two.

PE T5

Advantages:
1. Bigger fire box
2. NW or EW loading
3. protruding stove (may give more heat)
4. Easily replaceable fire brick

Disadvantages:
1. Overall fit and finish was less than my Jotul or VC
2. No ability to load wood longer than 18" (my 8 cords of wood is variable in length - some is slightly longer than 18")
3. Smaller glass
4. Need to extend hearth to account for protrusion

VC Montpelier

Advantages
1. Great looking - nice castings
2. Big glass
3. No need to extend hearth
4. Can take longer splits

Disadvantages
1. Less heat
2. No replaceable fire brick
3. The handle feels a little cheap
4. Vermont Castings turnover - seems they get sold an awful lot
5. From what I read here, it is a bit finicky - could spell trouble for my wife
6. Need to make new mantle/surround (not a big deal - plan to do it anyways over the next 2 years (I am a hobby cabinet maker)

What else am I missing? Anything else I should consider

 

[Gray Rock Farm]

Actually really considering the Enviro Boston 1700 insert - just saw it at the other stove shop - really nice finish and it fits well into my fireplace. The dealer also thinks it has a quieter fan than the PE. The only thing I didn't like is that the surround will not go flush against tile on my fireplace because the screws stick out behind it.... Definitely a small detail that they missed, but given where my fireplace is, it will be noticed.

 

[kingquad]

Can you shave or cut the screw length down? Purchasing an insert is a bit different than a freestanding stove. I would definitely go for the Enviro over the PE because of the firebox size.

 

[jeff_t]

Even with the chimney capped at the top, you're still losing heat as it rises and warms up the masonry of the chimney. If you're really considering a new insert, definitely put the plate in.

Fiberglass is considered combustible. You would have to use rockwool or similar.

 

[Gray Rock Farm]

Can you shave or cut the screw length down? Purchasing an insert is a bit different than a freestanding stove. I would definitely go for the Enviro over the PE because of the firebox size.

No - Behind the cast surround is a metal plate (gap number 1) then there are screw heads - shaving them down (there are many) would result in the surround falling a part.

I really am leaning towards the Boston 1700 - quality is great, practical, big fire box, etc. Although I just checked Enviro's website and they have a Cabella coming soon.... same fire box, but it is flush mounted. Is there much benefit to having the stove come out proud by 8 inches like the boston?

 

[Gray Rock Farm]

Even with the chimney capped at the top, you're still losing heat as it rises and warms up the masonry of the chimney. If you're really considering a new insert, definitely put the plate in.

Thanks Jeff - is there a big advantage of the blocking plate over insulation? I just don't see how I will be able to get it up in there....

 

[kingquad]

No - Behind the cast surround is a metal plate (gap number 1) then there are screw heads - shaving them down (there are many) would result in the surround falling a part.

I really am leaning towards the Boston 1700 - quality is great, practical, big fire box, etc. Although I just checked Enviro's website and they have a Cabella coming soon.... same fire box, but it is flush mounted. Is there much benefit to having the stove come out proud by 8 inches like the boston?

Yes, more radiant heat, less Btu's trapped in the chimney. Could actually cook on it in a pinch. I couldn't do a block off plate at lintel level, so I did one just below my old fireplace damper. Never ran it without a block off, so I can't compare. I could get my insert really hot. Like 950 degrees hot once. Mine regularly liked to run really pretty hot though. 750 was very common. I was just learning this thing though, and should have been cutting the air back sooner. I got what I felt were really impressive burn times for the size of the firebox. I would like to buy another Enviro product, but nothing in their lineup is big enough for my new house.