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Enviro Kodiak 2100 issue, advice?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by JustMike, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. JustMike

    JustMike New Member

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    Hey guys,

    Been looking for some help to try to solve this issue I'm having with my woodstove for quite some time now. I've been in this house now for 10 years and the stove was here when we moved in. House is a 1980's bungalow build which breaths well
    Here's the issue:
    Can't get a roaring fire in this stove without opening up the ash pan to allow the air to suck in from the bottom where the ash goes through to the ash pan. I can crack the door, it makes some difference, not a lot and with the door closed, the air damper opened fully the flame doesn't take off like it should, IMHO. I leave the ash pan open the fire builds really well, draft is good, and when the fire is burning well, burn indicator in the burn zone, I close the ash pan, the fire dies down. I find the air damper in the fully open or close position doesn't make a dramatic difference in the air flow. Further to that, there is no way to open the door when the fire is burning to add wood without lots of smoke bellowing out. I open the air damper for a minute or so, crack the door for just as long to try to mitigate any smoke back into the room but nothing works. I have to wait until the fire is down to red hot coals only and hurry adding wood. By the time I have 2 junks in the firebox the smoke is bellowing out again. The only thing that seems to works with this stove is to remove a couple of ceiling bricks to allow a better path for the smoke to exit the firebox. I know the ceiling bricks are there to enable a secondary burn. There used to be a double layer brick ceiling but I removed one layer to help with the flow yet not enough to stop the smoke exiting the door.
    I've scratched my head over this one for years. The previous owner didn't use it after it's install for this reason. I've since added a fresh air intake but it doesn't make the difference I'd hoped.
    The chimney is a 6" diameter approx., 15' straight run, about 4' above the peak with a rain cap. I clean my chimney every month during the fire season. Wood is a mixture of spruce and birch, mostly spruce, seasoned 2 years.
    Is it unwise to run the stove without ceiling bricks or fewer bricks? I know the secondary system would be negated but at least the stove wouldn't bellow smoke, but the fire/heat would go straight up the chimney....

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  2. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    Sounds like you need to make the chimney taller because there is not good draft. Do not open the ash door it will literally create an explosion ( Massive fireball ) and make your chimney into a roman candle. The smoke means you don't have enough draft ! with the proper draft there shouldn't be any smoke coming into the room. Its all barometric pressure do you have a lot of surrounding objects around the chimney like trees, buildings and so on? This could be a downdraft but I highly doubt it from your explanation.

    Pete
  3. JustMike

    JustMike New Member

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    Bad draft hey? I put a 4' section on the top already with braces to get a better draft but it made very little difference. It won't be able to support any further height in the chimney, nor will I be able to reach to clean it. There are trees about 30' to the side of my house and no other buildings..
  4. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    The first thing to do is check carefully to assert that nothing is spoiling draft. Check the chimney cap screen first, if there is one. When was the flue last cleaned? Next check the baffle to assert that the ceiling bricks are correct thickness and properly placed. If there is an insulation blanket on top of the bricks make sure that it is laying flat and not bunched up.
  5. JustMike

    JustMike New Member

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    Just cleaned the stove, chimney and glass. I find there is a good draft with the ceiling bricks removed, enough to draw the ash dust out as I'm sweeping the firebox, even when it's just in front of the open door you can see it being drawn out. I measured the chimney as well and it's a total length of 15'. Here is a pic to show how much height I have above the roof top.

    [​IMG]
  6. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    That chimney cap is weird. Pop that thing off and see what happens with draft.
  7. JustMike

    JustMike New Member

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    Will do...
  8. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    OK. I just enlarged the pic. It is a pretty standard cap. Just looked strange from the distance and the angle.
  9. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Hi Mike- After selling, using and installing Enviro wood stoves have found them very easy to run- easy to starr and gets right up to heat, sorry you're having issues. Not to insult anyone, but the dog shack air holes (in front lower part of stove) are they open?? This is where air comes thru and across the fire bed. And if I understand you correctly, you cannot reach normal operating temps 400-700 stove top temp?? I live in a raised ranch and with only 14 foot chimney, if its super cold, hard to hold my 1700 back with good dry wood. Normally I'd tell you wood is 90 percent of the issue- assuming you have tried and can't maintain temp even with loads of kindling?? The back puffing thats usually negative pressure in a house, can opening a window in the area where the stove is help?? The fresh air kit made no difference?? Sounds like an air flow thru the stove or inadequate draft- but 6 inch class a chimney normally a taylor made operational fit... and the pipe comes straight off stove and straight up?? I'm assuming stove is on first floor with 14-15 feet total of chimney, still seems it would work well. I'm stumped unless stove has an impediment for air flow going thru stove and thru sec system and up the flue. With bricks put in, stove only has about an inch to inch and a half on top of brick baffle, but that design been around long time... with the center sec air tube. Enviro, Napoleon and Energy king all used that set up for years, and Enviro still produces the 2100 with that design. We're told they are going to multi tube soon or totally new design for that stove. If you find trouble, please let us know, good luck with it.
  10. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Just wondering- have you tried operating it without cap?? Maybe Bart is onto something, might be worth the trouble...
  11. JustMike

    JustMike New Member

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    I cleaned the stove thoroughly this AM including taking out all the bricks and cleaning everything from top to bottom. Put the bricks back in as per manual except I only have 1 layer on the ceiling. It will not light with good dry kindling without opening up the ash pan a little to allow better air flow, no way shape or form, not even with the door open. However, when I get it going good and shut the ash pan, leave the damper open fully I can maintain a decent fire but it takes some time to get in the burn zone. I'm real careful not to let it flare up too much with the ash pan open just a tad. I have my burn indicator 17" up the flue and it's at 200C (390F) after 1hr of burn time fully open damper but in the last 20 mins it has climbed to almost 500F but I attribute that to the wind outside today pulling more air through the stove. I just added some more seasoned wood as I normally do when it gets down to red hot coals whereby the smoke still comes out when adding wood although with a window cracked in the room it does help some today with the wind. I did go up and remove the rain cap, which made little difference, so I modified it to remove the center horizontal strip allowing better air flow. Stove responds the same. Fresh air kit hooked up to the under side of the stove made no discernible difference in the air flow which makes me think something is wrong with the stoves internal air flow, like you have mentioned. I don't know exactly what you mean by " dog shack air holes" in the front lower part of the stove? Where are they exactly? The chimney is a straight run of 15' as you asked.
    Just for info, mine was manufactured in 06/1999 model # WH-10740. Not sure if the design has changed over the years?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  12. JustMike

    JustMike New Member

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    I need to take a video but here's some pics...

    Damper closed...

    [​IMG]

    Damper Opened...

    [​IMG]

    Wood pile cut this year... 16.5'x4.5'x 13-15" junk x 5 rows/almost = almost 3.5 cord

    [​IMG]

    What's left of Last years wood ( approx. 3.5 cord ). Using my wife's old greenhouse to keep it dry for now...

    [​IMG]
  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    this is the first Kodiak 2100 I can recall. The double brick baffle may just be a poor design, though it's hard to say as I have never seen one. Ventilate the old greenhouse or it will actually retain moisture in the wood.
  14. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Hi Mike wow nice woodpile. Ok therm on stovepipe you'll prob find stovetop to be about another 120-150 deg hotter, which is where I'd run the stove from (400-700 deg stovetop temp). Your air damper from closed to fully open how far is the travel 1.5-2 inches or so?? From the pix, doesn't look real far. The dogshack is what we call the air inlet holes in front of the stove- couldn't see yours, but I doubt they changed it over the years, the current ones have 3 about 1/2 inch holes in a small
    3-3.5 inch wide housing. What I'm saying wherever input air comes into burn chamber make sure no caked ash over time has clogged those inlet holes, which would hamper air being pulled (thru the chimney drafting) into the stove. Also, from the pix, don't see much wood in that firebox, give her some wood to burn too. From cold to over an hour to get to 450 reading on the flue pipe, thats kinda slow it seems to me, my stove normally 15-20 mins, she's up and going. My Jotul cast stove used to take about an hour to get up to temp, but cast stoves do take longer to heat up, (they take longer to cool too). From the pixs, see a definite change in flame brightness from damper min to damper max, that looks normal. Don't know what else to say- have heard very little issues with Enviro steel stoves, let us know if you figure it out good luck.
  15. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Not sure if there is a doghouse on this stove or not. It's not evident in the parts diagram.
  16. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Hey begreen- Yeah Kodiaks are Enviro current steel frames the 1200/1700 use the air tube design and cer baffle like most current models very nice burners. The 2100 is still made and is a carryover to the olden days of the Seefire, old Napoleon 1900 design with double brick and central single sec burn manifold, and energyking legacy models used the double brick baffle as well. Only reason I know is Preston Trading Post sold all those stoves years ago and we still had customers coming in for brick sets (some of the top bricks had to be cut or notched). Anyway, stay warm with that Alderlea beautiful burning units.
  17. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Begreen I was looking too- may be just a chamber that air exits somewhere in front- the model is still in production with little change but Enviro supposedly is updating the design like their other Kodiaks (1200/1700) then they'll have a 3 plus cuft firebox ala P/E Lopi Quad and all the rest of the Northwest stove guys. I like the hybrids cast outside and steel design inside (the new Boston models from Enviro) Very pricey though.
  18. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I like the current generation of Enviros (1200/1700) a lot. Nice stoves from what I have seen.
  19. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Begreen- yessir I agree. Like your choice the T6 too, just so damn heavy..... pretty stove though. Take care.
  20. JustMike

    JustMike New Member

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    Thanks for the help guys...I do have vents for the greenhouse that I open up in good weather.;) Will prop them open ASAP...
    I looked at the parts manual and I don't see any vents you speak of on the stove in front. Are they suppose to be on the outside of the stove somewhere or internal? I do notice some 1/4" holes on the underside of the ash pan where the gasket is glued on the bottom section. I'll take a pic to show. Other than those I only see holes for the air wash inside and the secondary burn holes up top and in the rear of the firebox. Only other hole is for the fresh air intake at the rear of the stove. Oh almost forgot...The air damper moves 1" from fully closed to open...

    [​IMG]
  21. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Is that a picture of the ash bin hole in the stove base? That is an odd location for those holes. are they factory or added?
  22. JustMike

    JustMike New Member

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    Yes, and Yes...They've been there since I've owned it. Not sure what their purpose is exactly? Not sure as to the placement of the gasket either. Almost looks as if the gasket should be above them..
  23. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Yes, there is something odd going on there.
  24. JustMike

    JustMike New Member

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    I wish I knew the internal air flow path for this stove. Can't tell from the manual
  25. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Hey Mike- don't know about those holes..... somewhere in front of stove is air intake- don't believe they have changed the air path that radically in that stove, as they still use the central sec air tube and brick baffle. Ok on the damper movement, that sounds ok. This stove is confusing, wished I was there to look at it.

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