Enviro M55 flame pattern?

[flynfrfun]

Is it just me or is Enviro's youtube video an exaggeration of how high the flames get on heat settings 3 and 5? I realize this depends on the pellet and stove settings, but assuming your stove is set up properly, do you get anything near what they show in the video? I know I sure don't and I burn Douglas Fir pellets (Blazers and Clean Burn) which are a pretty decent pellet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-FrAKB2vWk

 

[jtakeman]

Definitely higher than I see with most pellets I have tried. Douglas fir gave me the highest. My Omega would look like this(see vid) on 3 With the Hamer hot ones, Cubex, Spruce Pointes and Okies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2JA9NdS9QA&feature=related

 

[flynfrfun]

Does yours tend to have a higher fire on the left side of the burn pot? I think the way the pellets fall, they get deflected to the left side of the burn pot more than the right. I'd like to figure out how to even it out to get a more even fire. My stove is perfectly level, so I know that's not the problem.

 

[vinny11950]

I agree, those videos are pumped up.

For a long time, I had flame-size envy. Then I just learned to live with it.

On setting five, the highest setting, my flame looks like the 3rd setting on the video. Not right to set expectations so high.

However, pellets do matter, so maybe I just haven't hit upon the one that does the trick.

 

[flynfrfun]

I agree, those videos are pumped up.

For a long time, I had flame-size envy. Then I just learned to live with it.

On setting five, the highest setting, my flame looks like the 3rd setting on the video. Not right to set expectations so high.

However, pellets do matter, so maybe I just haven't hit upon the one that does the trick.

I won't have the flame size envy now that I know it's normal to have a smaller flame. I agree, mine on 5 is more like theirs on 3. Vinny, does yours tend to have an even flame, or is it higher on the left than on the right? I realize flame height will vary as the stove runs, but mine definitely favors having a much taller flame on the left than on the right of the burn pot. This may not matter to some folks, but I like to tinker and if I could get the flame a little more even, I figure the heat exchangers would get more even heat and it would be more enjoyable to watch.

I figure it could be two things:

1. The direction (clockwise/counterclockwise) the auger turns, tends to push the pellets to one side of the drop chute.
2. The opening between the chute and the auger is off center causing the pellets to fall to one side of the chute. If I remember right the opening is oval shaped. I looked at it when I had the auger out last year.

 

[Fish On]

Could it be the way exhaust fan is on the right or left which may lead to a vacume effect?

 

[vinny11950]

i get the same flame pattern on mine; taller on the left side of the pot. i figured it is the way the air flows through the stove, being the exhaust opening is on the left, the air travels heavy on that side and feeds the flame more oxygen on the left side. it would also explain the right side of the glass getting ash buildup, because the air flow leans to the left side as it travels out. but i had never thought it was the auger. it could be, i have to check for that.

i do notice the flame waxes and wanes on the agitator timing. i think it is because the pellets accumulate, start to burn nicely, and then the agitator knocks them all around the pot, destroying the nice burning heap that produced the nice flame. so the process begins anew.

 

[flynfrfun]

Hmmm...the exhaust fan idea sounds plausible too. I wonder if I were to partially block the left hand top of the firebox liner and baffle, it might make it suck the air more from the right side of the stove. I wonder if that's what the angled piece of steel is for in this Enviro video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-0I307J56o

Notice how it would seem to even out the air flow going up and into the baffle since the exhaust is on the left bottom side of the stove. I wonder why Enviro stopped installing that part?

Also, while watching my stove drop pellets, it sure seems like more fall down the left side of the chute than the right.

 

[jtakeman]

The agitator disrupts my flame. I sometimes have very little in the middle and large fire on the ends. IF I remember correctly the left is slightly higher than the right. But not all that bad. Fire size doesn't bug me as I only see it when I'm down stairs and have a clean window. My stove is more like a furnace and I don't bother to clean the glass but once a week. All I care about is heat. And this thing does way more than I expected. So I don't have big fire envy. So no need for "Enzyte" for me or my stove! :cheese:

My agitator turns at a constent rate. The M55's can be reduced in Premium mode. Standard is like my agitator timing. I wonder if we remove the agitator, Would we see the big fire like in the vid's? I honestly think the #5 is on the verge of over firing the stove. Could also be they had the auger cover/plate set in the higher position and as I remember that did over fire the stove.

I never have the rate set on #5, Heats just fine on #3.

 

[jtakeman]

Hmmm...the exhaust fan idea sounds plausible too. I wonder if I were to partially block the left hand top of the firebox liner and baffle, it might make it suck the air more from the right side of the stove. I wonder if that's what the angled piece of steel is for in this Enviro video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-0I307J56o

Notice how white the ash is. I see very few pellets burn that clean. They must be burning them miricle pellets we can't get! One of the vid's shows what looks to be Pinnicle Douglas fir pellets. I can't get them out here!

I assume its to divert the exhaust gas, Probably to slow it down some to absorb more heat in the unit. Next time I have my baffle out I see if the Omega has the diverter behind it.

 

[flynfrfun]

The agitator disrupts my flame. I sometimes have very little in the middle and large fire on the ends. IF I remember correctly the left is slightly higher than the right. But not all that bad. Fire size doesn't bug me as I only see it when I'm down stairs and have a clean window. My stove is more like a furnace and I don't bother to clean the glass but once a week. All I care about is heat. And this thing does way more than I expected. So I don't have big fire envy. So no need for "Enzyte" for me or my stove! :cheese:

My agitator turns at a constent rate. The M55's can be reduced in Premium mode. Standard is like my agitator timing. I wonder if we remove the agitator, Would we see the big fire like in the vid's? I honestly think the #5 is on the verge of over firing the stove. Could also be they had the auger cover/plate set in the higher position and as I remember that did over fire the stove.

I never have the rate set on #5, Heats just fine on #3.

J-
I still can't see how having more flutes of the auger exposed to the pellets would increase the feed rate? Seems to me all you need is at least one full flute exposed to the pellets and then they ride up the auger. Guess that's off subject though.

At any rate, with my stove being in the living room, it is the center of attention, so we do enjoy watching it. Overall, I'm happy with it, but it is fun to try to "tweak" it and maybe improve a thing here and there.

 

[jtakeman]

The agitator disrupts my flame. I sometimes have very little in the middle and large fire on the ends. IF I remember correctly the left is slightly higher than the right. But not all that bad. Fire size doesn't bug me as I only see it when I'm down stairs and have a clean window. My stove is more like a furnace and I don't bother to clean the glass but once a week. All I care about is heat. And this thing does way more than I expected. So I don't have big fire envy. So no need for "Enzyte" for me or my stove! :cheese:

My agitator turns at a constent rate. The M55 can be reduced in Premium mode. Standard is like my agitator timing. I wonder if we remove the agitator, Would we see the big fire like in the vid's? I honestly think the #5 is on the verge of over firing the stove. Could also be they had the auger cover/plate set in the higher position and as I remember that did over fire the stove.

I never have the rate set on #5, Heats just fine on #3.

J-
I still can't see how having more flutes of the auger exposed to the pellets would increase the feed rate? Seems to me all you need is at least one full flute exposed to the pellets and then they ride up the auger. Guess that's off subject though.

At any rate, with my stove being in the living room, it is the center of attention, so we do enjoy watching it. Overall, I'm happy with it, but it is fun to try to "tweak" it and maybe improve a thing here and there.

I remember one of the members had his dealer do the plate adjustment because it was over firing. From what he said it didn't overfire anymore after the plate was repositioned. I also remember reading somewhere that Enviro was claiming the stove would produce over 55,000 BTU's with some brands(plate in the original place). I am assuming it gave a denser charge with the plate higher. Plate in lower may let some fuel fall back down?? When plate was higher the fuel in the hopper kept more in the auger flight's??? Just a wild guess on my part. Take a look at a quad with their fuel gate. Same principal. Maybe we could make the plate adjutable in the M55 and you could tweak it for flame fluctuation???

 

[flynfrfun]

Yeah, I knew Quads have the plate, but don't they use a corkscrew setup and not a true auger? But, maybe it doesn't matter. The important thing is that more flights of the auger exposed to the hopper somehow seems to feed more pellets.

After watching my stove very closely, I think the flame being stronger on the left might be a combination of the air flow AND pellets dropping more to the left than the right. So, a little of both. I've got a few ideas to try out. I'll let you all know if it works.

 

[jtakeman]

A pellet diverter of sorts? Something to spread them evenly or more fuel to the low fire area in the pot might work.

 

[slls]

And to think I heat my house with a flame no bigger than a soft ball.

 

[jtakeman]

And to think I heat my house with a flame no bigger than a soft ball.

Mines bigger than yours! :cheese:

 

[flynfrfun]

And to think I heat my house with a flame no bigger than a soft ball.

Ha,ha...good point! I liked the Quad 1200i when I was looking for a stove. Seems to be a solid stove with a good reputation. But the M55's flame was so much more pleasing.

It's interesting to see the different burn pot designs. The Quad style appears to use a lot of air to keep the fly ash "flying" so as to keep the burn pot clear. The Enviro has long slots and a lot of them which probably spreads the air flow over a greater area with a lower velocity. This leads to less fly ash and less of a blow torch effect, but then the agitator is used to move the ash out of the pot.

 

[flynfrfun]

A pellet diverter of sorts? Something to spread them evenly or more fuel to the low fire area in the pot might work.

That's what I was thinking. I did a quick test with a square shaped magnet about 3/8" square and 3/32" thick. Stood it up on edge and used it like a weathervane in the pellet chute. I angled it towards the right side of the burn pot. It seemed to do the trick. The fire was much more even. However, I learned the importance of creating something that will not cause a pellet jam. The magnet slowly got turned sideways as pellets hit it and eventually caused a pellet jam. So, I am thinking a triangular shaped piece so that the pellets slide up and over the leading edge and can't get stuck. I figure I would only drill one hole about center of the diverter so that I can adjust the angle. Then if I need another hole, I could then drill a second to make the angle permanent. My biggest concern is drilling holes into the pellet chute as if this experiment fails, what would I put in the holes to plug them?

 

[jtakeman]

I wouldn't mess with the chute. I would work with something easily replaceable like the burn pot grate(50-1696). Seeing the tube can't be easily replaced. You should be able to add a diverter that will do a similar job.

 

[flynfrfun]

I wouldn't mess with the chute. I would work with something easily replaceable like the burn pot grate(50-1696). Seeing the tube can't be easily replaced. You should be able to add a diverter that will do a similar job.

J-
You're a genius! I hadn't thought of that. I could drill holes in the grate's upper lip and install the diverter there. It would have to be a little taller to stick up into the path of the pellets, but it should work. If the experiment fails, I can easily leave a screw in the holes as the screw head won't stick up high enough to interfere with the pellets.

 

[flynfrfun]

Initial test was a failure of sorts. I used a mini C-clamp to clamp my diverter to the grate. I removed the agitator because I didn't want it to try to chew up the metal bits of my diverter and clamp if things went bad. Turns out, I'm glad I did. Upon startup, the diverter was working too good. It was causing pellets to shoot out the sides of the burn pot. The problem is pellets are moving so fast that they ricochet and go flying in all directions. They weren't going over the top of the grate, but rather under the grate, but fast enough they kept going and some shot out into the ash pan. Not sure how to rectify this problem as I don't think the angle of the diverter matters much. As the pellets hit it, they go flying one way or the other as they bounce off from the leading edge. Once the fire got going, the clamp failed and it and the diverter fell into the firepot. Oh well, I'm glad I didn't drill any holes! If I would have left the agitator in, I would probably be ordering parts from my dealer right now :gulp:

I think I'm going to forget about the pellet diverter. Maybe working on the airflow will work. :cheese:

 

[jtakeman]

Mexican jumping beans! Wanna try some corn?? hehe. :cheese:

Don't give up just yet, Sleep on it. I failed my first(several) attempts when trying to keep the corn from scooting out from under the burn grate into the ash pan. Lucky I didn't break something either. But as you know now it doesn't take much for them to be redirected. All you might need is a small screw or thin piece of tin to angle a few extra's pellets to the proper side of the pot.

I never tried mine with the agitator out. I'll have to try it some day.

 

[flynfrfun]

Ha,ha...good one J! It really did look like Mexican jumping beans! Nah, I don't give up easily. But, for now I'm going to try to do an exhaust diverter and see what happens. You know...divide and conquer. If it works, I won't have to mess with the pellet diverter.

I think all I need to do is block the slot in the baffle partway across the left side of the stove. On the M55, the exhaust goes up into the heat exchanger thru holes in the front of the baffle. Then to the back of the stove, then down thru a full stove width slot in the baffle and then down the back of the stove to the bottom where the exhaust hole is located on the left bottom side of the stove. I'm thinking that by blocking the left side of the slot in the baffle, it will force the stove to suck the air more from the right side of the firebox. Just a theory at this point.

 

[jtakeman]

Keep us posted on progress. You'll get it. ;-)

 

[flynfrfun]

I thought of a different way to divert pellets. Instead of having the diverter vertical, I could make it horizontal and then twist it slightly towards the right side of the stove. This way the pellets are still sliding and not slamming into the vertical "fin" of my old diverter. Like you said J, I just need to deflect a small % of the pellets and this would probably work.

Another idea would be to still use a vertical diverter, but have it in line with the left wall of the chute with a very slight angle to the right. This would move only those pellets that go really far left a little less to the left. That may be all it takes to balance things out. Fun, fun. I'll keep working on it...