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Enviro M55 High Output Fan Question

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Freddyp, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Freddyp

    Freddyp Member

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    Finally after a year of having problems with my M55, my dealer installed the new High Output Combustion fan today. All went well and certainly it blows more air into the room, however that is all it seems to be doing. I am noticing the I am not getting the same BTU output that I was getting with the old, original fan. I put a magnahelic gauge on it today and adjusted it down to .015 t .017 and all seems well but I can not seem to get the same level of heat that I was getting with the older fan. I am getting luke warm air and a very fast flame. I am running Okanakas and running the heat level at 3, air at 2 and feed at 2.
    Anyone have any ideas or advice that I can try to create more heat output from this stove.

    BTW - this stove is one year old and the control touch panel needed to be replaced today, the porcelain is burning off the door and the high low switch does not seem to be working and am waiting for a new switch - Go figure for $4500!!

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  2. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    When you increase the volume of air through a heat exchanger the temperature will go down, but temperature is not the same as amount of heat, you are forgetting about the volume of air that is being heated.
    heat seeker likes this.
  3. save$

    save$ Minister of Fire

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    I usually look for the temperature of the rooms being heated and what the outdoors temperature is. We usually can predict what our inside temp will be by knowing what the outside temps are.
  4. jrogers999

    jrogers999 Member

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    I can't remember how hot it was with the original fan. All I remember was the stupid thing overheating all the time. I can only imagine the damage it caused when it did. I have the new fan and the air is hot. Happier with the new fan. Have to agree with you on not being very confident on the long term reliability for the money. Kinda wish I went with another brand. Sorry Enviro owners.
  5. ltlhawk

    ltlhawk Member

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    fred,

    I have the same stove (FS) and I was very dissapointed by the air temp coming out, but after using the stove for a few months now I am realizing that the air coming out the stove is not a good judge of performance. I have realized that this stove is working great. To date I have not had to go above level three. yes the temp at the output is not that hot, but this things heats my entire house (70 degrees), even when the temp outside was at 5 degrees (last week). I am also burning Okies right now and if you want an indication of the air temp coming out I am measuring 180 degrees about 1/2 inch from the exiting air ports. Of course each stove will have a spot that is the hotest, and mine is the left most output tube. I use a DVM with a thermocouple to measure the temp. I hope this helps.
  6. Freddyp

    Freddyp Member

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    HI Smokey, thanks for the quick response but I am still confused. The stove has been running since 5:00 today until now, with the old fan I would have had to lower my heat rate down to 2 or even 1 by now, (8:45pm or 3+ hrs on), however I am still running heat at 3 just to get some heat into the family room. I am currently sitting around 6 ft away and can feel cool air hitting me.... certainly more air but less heat - I can't figure it out.
    Also the fire is not as big as was with the older fan running at the same settings.
  7. ltlhawk

    ltlhawk Member

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    Fred, with my M55 FS on level one would only make my house around 65 or so if I was lucky. I use a thermostat on high/low mode with high set to 3. I burn .75 of a bag per day on most days and about 1.25 on those really cold days. I have no complaints... thermostat rocks ! I recently installed the programmable thermostat and it make the stove performance much better than the manual one, since I can program the thing to stay low during the day when no one is home and at night when we sleep. I recommend it highly.
  8. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    The new convection fan could not effect the fire. But when your dealer installed the H/O fan did they also install the adjustable auger cover? That would have a large effect on the fire.
    SmokeyTheBear likes this.
  9. Freddyp

    Freddyp Member

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    Thanks LtlHawk, I will probably just monitor it over the next few days/weeks and recheck my Mag rate in the morning and see if it is still close to the .016 that it was earlier today.
    Thanks
  10. ltlhawk

    ltlhawk Member

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    Jtakeman, how does the adjustable auger plate affect the fire? I have the adjustable plate but not sure how to set it up. It is currently set to about 2 inches of open area for pellets to go up.
  11. ltlhawk

    ltlhawk Member

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    I was not able to achieve the .15 - .17 on the mag with my stove for some reason, so a few weeks ago I made a mod to my damper and extended it about 1 inch. Now I can adjust the damper to achieve the .15-.17 reading. This increased the heat coming out of the air vent by 40 degrees. Once I set it to .16 it has stayed at that level.
  12. Freddyp

    Freddyp Member

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    No Jay, he installed the new fan, (went in pretty easy, since I helped him) and replaced the control panel since the on/off switch wore through,,, but that was it. I suspected that we moved the damper so I reset the damper with a mag gauge running the stove at 5 and everything else around 3. I thought I got everything running great but only had an hour to hang around and monitor the stove, but tonight after 4 hrs now and not getting the burn that I used to get. Still tinkering but not sure if I should increase feed rate and increase the air rate as well to see if I can increase flame which I think should increase heat output.
  13. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    If you lower the plate it restricts the amount of fuel the auger feeds. If you raise the plate it will allow more fuel.
  14. ltlhawk

    ltlhawk Member

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    ah, so it is another way to adjust feed... thanks for the info. My feed seems ok so I will leave it as is....
  15. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    How long was the stove shut down for the change out? How low did the temperature in the house go? How much volume of air are we talking about? Compared to other days is the outside temperature higher or lower?

    How is the wind down that way, more or less wind?

    Are you running the stove an a t-stat and if so what mode is the stove set to?

    Is your stove on an OAK?



    A BTU has a very specific definition and to simplify matters I'll talk in terms of water.

    1 BTU = the amount of energy required to raise one pound of water 1 ::F

    If you run 2 pounds of water into the device and apply 1 BTU the temperature will increase 0.5 degrees.

    It works the same with air. Twice the amount of air half the temperature increase. Exactly the same amount of heat.


    Now what changes is the the transfer of heat from the hot exhaust side to the cold convection blower side increases (provided certain air flow conditions are met) due to the greater difference in temperatures so more heat will be extracted from the fire.

    This is why the stove no longer high limits out. The heat is now in the room instead of in the heat exchanger metal.

    What you feel of it after it leaves that stove is going to depend upon all of the other factors that govern heat transfers and this is where it gets really messy. Because all of the homes building characteristics come into play along with outside conditions.
    ltlhawk likes this.
  16. ltlhawk

    ltlhawk Member

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    well said
  17. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    The only impact on combustion would come about if the new control panels trims were different than the old ones and if the stoves convection fan can prevent the combustion fan from having a proper draft. I'd don't burn without an OAK for that and many other reasons. Depending upon gaskets and air washes there can still be some interaction, however it shouldn't be drastic.
  18. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Most of us that have upgraded the convection blower have seen the temps drop, But the room warm faster because the extra convection turns the air over faster within the dwelling.

    With the lower fire your seeing, How are you managing the fines in the hopper. I have notice that if I let the fines build up I sometimes get the same effect your seeing. A smaller flame because less pellets get to the burnpot. If I see this I let the hopper run low and Vacuum out the fines. I don't like to waste what pellets are left , So I scoop them out and screen them. I get all the pellets I can before the vacuum gets the fines. Once I refill with I see a difference in the fire and the heat as well.

    If you have a lot a fines in the hopper, Might want to give it a vac and see what happens.
  19. ltlhawk

    ltlhawk Member

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    I built a home made screener to remove the fines and since I have been sifting the hopper cleaning has been reduced dramatically. I took pictures of how I built it and will post them soon.
  20. Brokenwing

    Brokenwing Feeling the Heat

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    All I can say is I feel your pain, I have been fighting with regency, for a year in April. Beautiful stoves, and they throw some heat, but there are some flaws. I think the engineers had one to many when building these stoves.
  21. Freddyp

    Freddyp Member

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    UPDATE on my original post
    OK so I shut the stove off last night at around 11:00ish and went to bed, was up Saturday Morning at 4:30 (had to drive daughter to airport) and the family room were the stove is located is about 500Sq Feet, new 2X6 construction, well insulated custom ranch temp was 60 degrees.

    No OAK but the insert is in a see through fireplace so I simply just leave the backside of back fireplace doors open - plenty of air, no OAK needed. Stove was thoroughly cleaned including flu prior to service call yesterday. The family-room at 4:30 this morning was 60 degrees, outside air 17 degrees and zero wind conditions.

    Turned stove on @ 4:30, heat combustion level 4, all other settings = 3. I do have a high end thermostat hooked up, but am running the stove in Manual mode for the time being. Pellet selection is Premium still using Oakies. Filled the hopper at 4:30 am as well.

    It is now 7:30am and the hopper is almost empty and the family room is only at 68 degrees.
    Clearly I understand that I am getting more airflow and supposedly moving the air away from the heating tubes and into the room much quicker, however it feels like I have a summertime circular fan turned on & sitting on top of the stove and at about 5 feet away it is cold air that I am feeling instead of hot air. With the original, low volume combustion fan I was getting a much hotter heat and the room was heating up much quicker. With the prior fan, I would never run the heat above a setting of 3, and all other settings at 2. I only had one episode that the stove over heated and needed to be reset.
    So I am not sure what settings I should play with next,,,,open the damper more, increase combustion air, or feed it more pellets, (which would be a killer since this thing is a beast), but I plan on playing around a bit this morning including maging it again to make sure that I am still at .016.
    Don't know if I missed something but thought I would update my post with the latest data.
    Thanks
  22. whlago

    whlago Feeling the Heat

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    Freddy did you open up the auger plate all the way? You shouldn't need to adjust that with the new convection blower. Anyway 2 degrees per hour doesn't seem too bad. With the new convection blower, however...I would definately keep the adustable auger plate open all the way.
  23. Freddyp

    Freddyp Member

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    No but I can try that later today. Best I remember I have that chocked down pretty much on reducing pellet consumption.
    Thanks

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