EPA NON-Cat Experts...Help Please

[Mike M.]

Hi,

Having some issues with my new Nap 1450 free standing stove. Basically, I start a good fire and establish a nice bed of red coals that covers the stove bottom completly. Then I add 4-5 splits on the coals straight in. I open the damper fully and let the fire catch. As my pipe temp (single wall) starts to reach 500, I damper down the stove very slowly. The pipe temps continue to climp up around 550 and above but I lose the primary fire and only the scondary flames are present. This causes my glass to blacken and seems like a very dirty fire.

The primary inlet is clean of ashes and coals. Happens with all types of wood. The only solution that I have found is to build more of a box style fire and give the primary air more space between splits. Is this normal with these stoves? Per the manual it says to fill the fire box all the way after coals are established. If I do this I have the problem. Could my stove be defective in some way? Do I maybe need a pipe damper (dealer recomended it)? Stove is located on the first floor of a ranch style home. My chimney goes up 6 feet of single wall then to the double pipe in the attic for another 12 feet or so.

I have a 1402 in my basement and have had simalar problems with it. However, it is not nearly as severe and touchy as the 1450. Open to ideas...burning every night at this point, outside temps are in the low 30s. Thanks - Mike

 

[Blue Vomit]

Hey Mike,
Please describe your fuel. How long has your wood been split and stacked outside? What kind of wood?

 

[Mike M.]

I am buring box elder, ash, maple...cut, split, covered since July 2011.

 

[Blue Vomit]

I am buring box elder, ash, maple...cut, split, covered since July 2011.

Doesn't seem to be the fuel then, I'm not familiar with your stove. I'm sure others will be along soon to help.
Good luck

 

[pen]

Is this a brand new chimney? If not, how much burning has been done on it since it was cleaned last, in particular, the cap?

pen

 

[Mike M.]

Yes- brand new Dura Vent Stainless Chimney. Had the issue since day one. Never cleaned it yet, had about 30 fires or so. The pipe looks okay, but the cap is getting somewhat black.

 

[BobUrban]

you mention the "stove Pipe" temp but not the stove top if I am reading your post correctly? I am burning a 30NC and this is my first season with an EPA stove. During the shoulder burns I would get dirsty glass - especially at the end of a burn cycle because I was not getting my stove top temp up past 4-450 for very long. Now that I am runnig it to 500+ my glass stays rather clean sans the bottom inch or two.

Move the temp guage to the stove top and see if the glass clears up with hotter "stove" fires and less in the tube.

Jusst my best guess. I am so pleased with my stove I cannot believe it.

 

[Mike M.]

I will check stove top temp on the next reload. However, I recall from last year that it would reach 650-700 and I still had the problem.

 

[n3pro]

Just my two cents,

Sounds like your smoldering, I agree with Pen 1) when was the chimney cleaned, if you are smoldering it would dirty it up quick. What are stove top temps? IMO sounds like your closing the primary air too late if outside pipe temps are getting to 500, then closing the air down too far for draft conditions. Don't sound like the wood BUT to make sure you could buy one of those kiln dry store bundles and see if the same thing occurs.

 

[Mike M.]

I am new to EPA stoves, but the problem to me seems to be more of an overfire condition rather than smoldering. This happens when the stove and pipe are very hot in the 500-700 range. To me it seems like too much draft rather than not enough. Note that after 30min or so the problem goes away, the primary fire relights and the glass cleans up.

 

[pen]

Alright, now it's making more sense. I misread your post initially. Yes, it could be an overdraft, or also that you have your wood stacked in there so loosely, that a poo-ton of air is getting around them making them all out gas at once. Are you loading North-South, or East to West? Have you tried changing orientation if your wood length allows?

Also, with the air closed down all the way, the glass will darken as you are shutting off the primary air which is part of the air wash for the glass.

In this case, I'd say it wouldn't hurt to try the pipe damper. It may allow you to leave your primary air open a bit more, which should keep air going over the glass and keep things cleaner.

My apologies for mis-reading your original problem.

pen

 

[pen]

Also, rake your coals to the the front of the stove before reloading. If you have the hot coals spread out all over the bottom, and you load on top of them, the entire fuel load takes off at once. The burn should progress at a bit more controlled rate if the hot coals are only at the very front.

pen

 

[Mike M.]

Actually the problem is worse when I pack in the wood...very tight like for overnight burns. If I leave air gaps the problem goes away somewhat. I have always loaded north/south. I will try east/west. Thanks for the help.

 

[pen]

yep, sounds like good dry fuel and a really good draft to me.

I'd be throwing that pipe damper in for sure.

If you still are having trouble after that, it may be time to look into the "florida bungalo syndrome" and perhaps block a bit of the secondary air intake.

pen

 

[Mike M.]

Thanks, just tried an east/west reload and could not believe the change. I raked the coals forward and packed in wood. Instead of a crazy out of control burn the load started very slowly and my glass stayed clean. I am running at about 1/2 damper now and am not having the problem. You were right, I was starting all the splits at once, causing the fire to be almost out of control during the first part of the burn.