1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

ethaneol

Post in 'The Gear' started by tnroadkill, Oct 8, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. tnroadkill

    tnroadkill Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    53
    have anyone noticed a change in chainsaws or small motors using ethaneol, my saw start running at extreme high speed used it in about 3 tank fulls then change back to gas with out ethaneol running better THANKS

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    15,972
    Loc:
    Anderson, Indiana
    i make sure my saw gas doent have it! You can run it if you ajust the carb
  3. woodconvert

    woodconvert Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    818
    Loc:
    Fenton Michigan
    That's because you are running your saw lean...that is, there isn't as much energy in a given volume of ethanol as there is in a given volume of gasoline. To run with ethanol, for starters the fuel charge must be richened. How much exactly I don't know.

    Is it running hot as well?. There is a bit more leeway in running lean on ethanol as there is less energy and therefore less heat but were it me i'd go back to strait gas.
  4. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    15,972
    Loc:
    Anderson, Indiana
  5. taxidermist

    taxidermist Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,031
    Loc:
    Fowlerville MI

    If you run your saws with it in it you are asking for a meltdown! use BP ultimate and good oil and you will not have any problems. I get to make lots of money from rebuilds do to todays fuels.

    Rob
  6. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    15,972
    Loc:
    Anderson, Indiana
    Stihl web site says its ok! i dont unless i have to, small carb adjust is all it takes.
  7. taxidermist

    taxidermist Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,031
    Loc:
    Fowlerville MI
    Yeah they are also the ones to sell you the new parts to rebuild the saw. My saw bench says DO NOT USE IT!!!! unless you want to rebuild your saw
  8. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    15,972
    Loc:
    Anderson, Indiana
    Wow guess i better break down this 460 then
  9. lobsta1

    lobsta1 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    220
    Loc:
    Eastern Ma.
    For many of us it is not really practical to drive 500 miles to get gas without ethanol. In other words, we have no choice in the matter.
    Al
  10. Corey

    Corey Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,122
    Loc:
    Midwest
    I like ethanol. I'd way rather give my money to a farmer than a mid east terrorist or commie dictator in south america. Set my car and truck up to burn E85. But the small two stroke stuff is where I draw the line. It seems like such a fine balance...you've basically got an engine spinning at 10,000+ rpm, lubed only by a fog of gasoline and 1 part in ~40 of oil. On top of that, the oil has so many conflicting requirements for performance that it's not even funny. Most all small engines I have came with a note that up to 10% ethanol (ie "E10" gasoline) is ok. I've run that in everything and never had a problem or really noticed a difference in performance.

    I hear there is a new two-stroke oil coming out that is fully ethanol compatible. Might be fun to try that some day...see if I can take advantage of the 105 octane in E85 and really make some wood chips fly! But for 'normal' use I wouldn't recommend more than E10 - at that level, you shouldn't really need any additional carb tuning or adjustments
  11. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,809
    Loc:
    Schenectady, NY
    I've had problems in my outboard and my truck, but none so far in the chainsaw. I found a source that doesn't have ethanol in it so I will be able to run the small engines on straight gas for a while longer.

    Matt
  12. chad3

    chad3 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    Loc:
    Southeast CT
    If it really bothers you, run race gas. It somewhere above 100 octane, but pure. Smells pretty good, but also about 2x as much as others. Run the highest pump gas you can get and you should be good.
  13. Badfish740

    Badfish740 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,404
    I'm new to this whole game just bought my first saw (Echo CS400) about a month ago. I bought a gallon of regular gas (87 octane) and mixed it up with oil the proper proportions and proceeded to use the saw. I had a hell of a time cutting into a 6" diameter pine tree and I thought that maybe thought the chain was new that it needed to be sharpened. The saw bogged easily and just didn't seem to have enough power-is this due to the ethanol content? It was listed on the pump as 10%. What can I do to give the fuel a little extra kick-octane booster? In my turbo four cylinder days we used to add toulene to Sunoco Ultra 94 to get the octane rating up above 105, so adding some to this batch ought to get it into the mid 90s easily. Otherwise I can just dump this batch in my Toyota pickup-one gallon of mixed fuel shouldn't be that big of a deal diluted in 20 gallons of straight gas.
  14. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    15,972
    Loc:
    Anderson, Indiana
    if its not running good get rid of it and go with 93 octane til you get it broke in.B.P. 93 octane gas is really god saw gas as mention,but not always easy to get to.
  15. Badfish740

    Badfish740 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,404
    I've got a Sunoco around the corner from me so they should have 94.
  16. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    15,972
    Loc:
    Anderson, Indiana
    That will work!
  17. taxidermist

    taxidermist Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,031
    Loc:
    Fowlerville MI
    The only reason I say BP/Amaco is they have the lowest or none in their gas You can run any gas as long as it is high octane and low EA. I too would rather give money to the farmers but I dont want to have to rebuild my saws at a toon of 300.00 per shot.
  18. wayneg

    wayneg Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    50
    Loc:
    Western Pa
    I also have an Echo CS-400. It runs and cuts great, with lots of power. I run a 16" bar on it instead of the 18" it came with (I never tried the 18"). I've only used 89 octane in it, since that's what the owner's manual specifies. I would feel fine using higher octane gas, but I would not use 87 octane in it.
  19. lobsta1

    lobsta1 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    220
    Loc:
    Eastern Ma.
    BP/Amoco has the lowest or none of WHAT in their gas? What is low EA?
    I agree with you & do run 93 octane in my saws. Around here we have no choice about ethanol. It was crammed down our throats. Doing all the work myself, it ended up costing me about $5000 to replace my perfectly good fiberglass gas tank in my boat. Had to rip a teak deck up, sawsall out a bulkhead & then a perfectly good 275 gal. tank. Had new tank built & fabricated custom hold down brackets. Re-glassed the bulkhead back in & then re-did the deck. I was NOT a happy person. It was either do all that or risk losing both 454 engines. I DON'T LIKE ETHANOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Al
  20. Cazimere

    Cazimere Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    224
    Loc:
    Delmarva
    BP/Amaco has ethanol in Maryland. I called them. It also has Invigorate. Still trying to figure out exactly what that is.
  21. Corey

    Corey Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,122
    Loc:
    Midwest
    IMHO, I would have the saw looked at and tuned up. 10% ethanol should not change the characteristics of the fuel enough to matter. If it is out of tune with regular gas, it is out of tune with 10% ethanol gas and throwing more octane (hence money) at it, won't fix a thing.

    Additionally, more octane does not automatically equal more power. Octane only allows you to run more compression or boost which in turn makes more power. If the owners manual for the saw said to use 87, then you should be fine with that, unless you have boosted compression on the saw or added a turbo or supercharger :)
  22. Redox

    Redox Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,099
    Loc:
    Burbs of B'more, MD, Hon!
    OOH! A blown chainsaw; what an idea! Maybe nitrous?

    Sorry to heat about your bad experience, Al. There's lots of people in the same boat (no pun intended).

    I always thought ethanol raised the octane anyway. High octane is a waste in most engines as it only prevents premature detonation (knocking). It doesn't add power, unless you can raise compression to take advantage of it. CNG has an octane of about 120-130 and it does nothing for performane. trust me. All the gas around here has ethanol as an oxygenate to help reduce pollution. They used to use MTBE, but that caused problems when it got out in the groundwater. I think most states on the East coast have oxygenated fuels; apparently, all the way to Maine!

    The new chain saw is probably running a little rich as most manufacturers do this for break in. After you foul the plug, take it back to the dealer and have them readjust the carb. I wouldn't lean it out until it has a few hours on it.

    Chris
  23. struggle

    struggle Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    727
    Loc:
    NW Iowa
    All I have run in may saws is the 10% blend and the same for all the lawn equipment 2 or 4 stroke and I have never had any issues with any of it. My O19 Stihl runs like the day I bought it 11 years ago and it has cut more over sized trees then it ever should have and has an oversized bar as well on it.
  24. taxidermist

    taxidermist Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,031
    Loc:
    Fowlerville MI
  25. mranum

    mranum New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    96
    Loc:
    Wisconsin
    Echo does indeed want you to run a minimum of 89 octane. Unless it just won't perform I wouldn't change a setting until you put at least 1 or 2 tanks of gas through it. The directions for adjusting are listed in the manual if it is needed. The CS-400 is not a powerful saw, by that I mean you can stall it pretty easy if you try and horse it through the log, especially if its new and not broke in. Just let it cut at its own rate while holding a decent RPM. I say this not to offend anyone on their form of operation but rather because I know people that have used saws for years and still don't actually know how to use one properly.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page