European Stoves

[Randy Acton]

Its too bad that we Americans fear change as much as we do. The European market for wood, pellet stoves and boilers is sooooo much more advanced it is really a shame that American manufacturers, the EPA and more importantly the buying public aren't more open to new ideas.

In researching alternative heating solutions for my own household, I thought that I had seen it all, until I came across Klover Stoves. These things seem to be amazing. Separate burn chambers for cord wood or pellets, nice cooking surfaces and the ability for hydronic heating.

Why cant I get one of these at my local hearth shop?

 

[DougA]

Many European mfgs do not see enough potential in the US market to warrant getting UL or EPA certification, which is expensive and time consuming. For example, I can't buy a Woodstock stove to use in Canada (unless I want 3' setbacks) because they are not ULC certified and no intention of doing it last I spoke to them ($10K for each model). Add to that the mfg has to find a distributor who is willing to shell out a ton of money to stock the stoves plus parts plus back everything with service guarantees.
Northern Europe (and northern Italy) use a lot of masonry heaters which are catching on slowly in North America but are very pricey. If you do some more research, I think you will find some European models available. I have. I saw one in a showroom that interested me only because it was discounted so drastically just to unload it.

 

[Dune]

A lot of one size fits all things don't do any of them well. A wood stove is so entirely different than a pellet stove it isn't really great to put them together. ( a boiler or furnace would be different).

Any stove sold today, except soapstone can be made to provide hot water.

Other than that, I agree. There are pellet burning stirling cycle engines available in Europe which provide electricity and heat the house as a byproduct with waste heat. I would love to have one of those.

 

[begreen]

One thing is price. Klovers are expensive. It would be hard for me to justify putting $7500-10K in a stove.

 

[markam]

Its too bad that we Americans fear change as much as we do. The European market for wood, pellet stoves and boilers is sooooo much more advanced it is really a shame that American manufacturers, the EPA and more importantly the buying public aren't more open to new ideas.

In researching alternative heating solutions for my own household, I thought that I had seen it all, until I came across Klover Stoves. These things seem to be amazing. Separate burn chambers for cord wood or pellets, nice cooking surfaces and the ability for hydronic heating.

Why cant I get one of these at my local hearth shop?

Europeans pay a lot more for heat, making it more feasible to invest in more expensive (more useful) systems.

 

[begreen]

Why would investing in a more expensive system be related to fuel cost? Efficiency is more important than having a cook top in that case, assuming most Europoeans already have a cooking stove. You can buy a huge amount of pellets for a pellet stove that is 2% less efficient but costs 1/2. These high end units are for the wealthy, even in Europe. In average households I've only seen much more humble stoves.

 

[markam]

Why would investing in a more expensive system be related to fuel cost? Efficiency is more important than having a cook top in that case, assuming most Europoeans already have a cooking stove. You can buy a huge amount of pellets for a pellet stove that is 2% less efficient but costs 1/2. These high end units are for the wealthy, even in Europe. In average households I've only seen much more humble stoves.

Payback time. if you spend $1,000/year on heat, it is hard for someone to talk you into buying a $10,000 system. If you spend $5,000/year for heat, it a lot easier to sell a $10,000 system. European manufactures probably don't sell in the US because they know they are priced out of the market.

 

[begreen]

Pellet prices in Germany don't seem that different from here. Maybe 20% higher? In Denmark it looks even cheaper. I would think they would invest in insulation first for better payback. And they heat smaller areas. Again, in multiple trips to Europe I have not seen many high end stoves installed.

 

[mstoelton]

Note: in Europe Tonne usually refers to metric tons (2205 lbs.) so the cost for pellets in Germany may be even lower!

 

[Dune]

Note: in Europe Tonne usually refers to metric tons (2205 lbs.) so the cost for pellets in Germany may be even lower!

Not likely since they are getting them from here.

 

[begreen]

Actually that is correct. That is per metric ton. Good point.

I did a bit more looking around and found pellet prices surprisingly affordable in Europe.

The US is just one of many suppliers of pellets in Europe. Scandanavia, Germany, Austria, Russia and even South America supply their pellets.
http://www.forever-fuels.com/content/where-do-your-wood-pellets-come

What's a bit concerning are the growth projections for consumption.

 

[Dune]

http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/6077/positioned-for-pellets

 

[begreen]

Yes, it's coming. Here's another one from BioMass:
http://biomassmagazine.com/articles...-projects-increased-pellet-biogas-consumption

 

[Dune]

Actually that is correct. That is per metric ton. Good point.

I did a bit more looking around and found pellet prices surprisingly affordable in Europe.

The US is just one of many suppliers of pellets in Europe. Scandanavia, Germany, Austria, Russia and even South America supply their pellets.
http://www.forever-fuels.com/content/where-do-your-wood-pellets-come

What's a bit concerning are the growth projections for consumption.

If it is replacing fossil fuels it is encouraging.

 

[Tenn Dave]

If it is replacing fossil fuels it is encouraging.

When I was in the Navy back in the 70's I served a couple of years in England. Back then most of the common folks burned coal in stand alone units and inserts.

 

[Huntindog1]

Most European stoves are not geared for long burns.

All the info I can find on Klover Stoves is pellet stoves.

This is a wood stove board. Hard to compare apples to oranges.

 

[begreen]

They make a combi wood and pellet boiler called the Bi-Fire. And they also make some wood only boiler units.
http://www.klover.it/EN/prodotti-pellet-legna//29/Pellet-/-Wood.aspx