Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...

[laynes69]

Here is a pic of our heatexchanger. It's easier to see since we have the plenum opening.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Thanks laynes, Tom is your unit insulated on the sides? What about the top, insulated? Are you 2 outlets on the front so the air has to travel past the HE? Maybe for giggles make up a plenum and try that, should be pretty easy for you being handy and all. I guarantee the problem is air flowing through the unit, its just a matter of finding what.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

EDIT: I just realized that this quote makes it look like I'm laughing at your manhood... What I meant was, I was pickin up on your sarcasm of acting like you are out of wood, when I know you are building "lumber mountain", what you cuttin for winter '20-'21 today?

2026 I believe.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

EDIT: I just realized that this quote makes it look like I'm laughing at your manhood... What I meant was, I was pickin up on your sarcasm of acting like you are out of wood, when I know you are building "lumber mountain", what you cuttin for winter '20-'21 today?

2026 I believe.

Started the fire 5 hours ago, damper closed ever since it got going. 2100 sq ft farmhouse is still 4F warmer than this morning, and the coals are still cycling the blower.

20F outside, sunny, not much wind. I project I'll start another load about 4-5 hours from now.

Started the fire 5 hours ago, damper closed ever since it got going. 2100 sq ft farmhouse is still 4F warmer than this morning, and the coals are still cycling the blower.

20F outside, sunny, not much wind. I project I'll start another load about 4-5 hours from now.

Don't know what happened here ^^^^^^^^. If your still getting heat you have to be off gassing longer than 90 min if the damper is closed. I suspect you are off gassing more on the end of 6 hrs or so.

 

[DoubleB]

If your still getting heat you have to be off gassing longer than 90 min if the damper is closed. I suspect you are off gassing more on the end of 6 hrs or so.

Maybe I'm not accurate in my offgassing terminology or something. But after 90 minutes I couldn't get yellow/orange flames or anything on the secondaries, even with the damper open. The firebox was more than half full of the charred splits which were mostly big chunks of coal as far as I can tell. If I opened the damper at 90 minutes I could get some little blue flames off the splits, but not much more than that as for flames.

Regarding heat, though, the damper was closed all day yet the coals kept the blower cycling all the way until 9 hours later this afternoon.

Remember the above was using 90% box elder, most of it 2-3 inches. Today's results were pretty typical. Smallish box elder only lasts so long for me.

 

[brenndatomu]

Here is a pic of our heatexchanger. It's easier to see since we have the plenum opening.View attachment 168172

That is exactly what the Tundra looks like with the top off.

Thanks laynes, Tom is your unit insulated on the sides? What about the top, insulated? Are you 2 outlets on the front so the air has to travel past the HE? Maybe for giggles make up a plenum and try that, should be pretty easy for you being handy and all. I guarantee the problem is air flowing through the unit, its just a matter of finding what.

I'm guessin I'm still "Tom"?
I don't think the top is insulated, it gets pretty warm. I thought the sides were because they stay pretty cool, but I looked at the parts diagram and don't see insulation.
I'm thinking about taking the sides off to have a look around, make sure everything "looks" right, and clean things if necessary.

I'm using the 2 side duct outlets, which is SBIs recommended setup, but it doesn't matter which holes you use, the air has to come past the HEs. SBI says to use the side outlets because they are both pulling heat mainly off the side HEs. If you use the front/rear duct outlets, then you are pulling heat off the center HE more so, and then they (ducts) are in series, so the rear port will always be cooler than the front one. It is more of a parallel setup when you use the side ports, and both sides should run about the same temp.

I very well may take a run at using a plenum, or at the very least try tapping into the front duct outlet along with the 2 side ones, there seems to be a lot of heat at that front port.

It was very interesting, I installed a temp controller (just like my setup) on my sisters Tundra today. She hasn't used it much yet because it was right at the end of the heating season 'til I got it installed last spring, and it has been so warm this fall/winter so far. (she snagged it when Menards was blowin 'em out for $1250 at the end of the winter 2014/2015) Anyways, when I put it in, I hung the existing plenum from the floor joist above and removed the old furnace (Yukon Big Jack) then slide the Tundra back under.
So her setup uses a plenum, but only the two side duct holes are actually open into the plenum.
I finished the controller and we fired 'er up...once up to temp and settled down, 100* AT THE REGISTERS with the Tundra cruising on the secondarys, damper closed! And this is with the return air having to come down the stairs and across a long and very cold basement floor. Totally different results compared to mine. The only real differences are that this unit has the fan and limit switches in the "new" spot, and then obviously the plenum. Speaking of the fan switch, it kicked on way earlier than mine would have so I was expecting cold or at least cool air...nope, nice n warm. Amazing. I'm just shaking my head here.
Obviously I have some more investigative work to do...

 

[KARB2014]

That is exactly what the Tundra looks like with the top off.

I'm guessin I'm still "Tom"?
I don't think the top is insulated, it gets pretty warm. I thought the sides were because they stay pretty cool, but I looked at the parts diagram and don't see insulation.
I'm thinking about taking the sides off to have a look around, make sure everything "looks" right, and clean things if necessary.

I'm using the 2 side duct outlets, which is SBIs recommended setup, but it doesn't matter which holes you use, the air has to come past the HEs. SBI says to use the side outlets because they are both pulling heat mainly off the side HEs. If you use the front/rear duct outlets, then you are pulling heat off the center HE more so, and then they (ducts) are in series, so the rear port will always be cooler than the front one. It is more of a parallel setup when you use the side ports, and both sides should run about the same temp.

I very well may take a run at using a plenum, or at the very least try tapping into the front duct outlet along with the 2 side ones, there seems to be a lot of heat at that front port.

It was very interesting, I installed a temp controller (just like my setup) on my sisters Tundra today. She hasn't used it much yet because it was right at the end of the heating season 'til I got it installed last spring, and it has been so warm this fall/winter so far. (she snagged it when Menards was blowin 'em out for $1250 at the end of the winter 2014/2015) Anyways, when I put it in, I hung the existing plenum from the floor joist above and removed the old furnace (Yukon Big Jack) then slide the Tundra back under.
So her setup uses a plenum, but only the two side duct holes are actually open into the plenum.
I finished the controller and we fired 'er up...once up to temp and settled down, 100* AT THE REGISTERS with the Tundra cruising on the secondarys, damper closed! And this is with the return air having to come down the stairs and across a long and very cold basement floor. Totally different results compared to mine. The only real differences are that this unit has the fan and limit switches in the "new" spot, and then obviously the plenum. Speaking of the fan switch, it kicked on way earlier than mine would have so I was expecting cold or at least cool air...nope, nice n warm. Amazing. I'm just shaking my head here.
Obviously I have some more investigative work to do...

I know your not really using the factory snap disc because you have the controller set up. But I do recall one member last year having SBI send him the new snap discs and he did report the fire would rage much larger and more intense. The new location the high limit snap disc is indeed a 200 deg open on rise. I know on my unit if I don't get the fire raging before letting it shut down I'm disappointed with the heat output. In the beginning of last year I was really getting frustrated with the unit. My issue was not letting it get hot enough(last year I was burning mostly 4yr old ash). Maybe try to eliminate using the controller for right now and from a cold fire box let it burn for at least 20-25 mins. With the Sycamore I'm burning for the shoulder season here I set my timer to 15 mins for a reload on hot coals. It gets f****** hot. But I will get really intense secondaries and really good heat output for a good few hours. With it being mid 30's out I will get about 6-7hrs out of the Sycamore and about 1/2 to 2/3 full fire box. This was a big tree so I got the rounds cut at only 8 inches long,It's hard to get the fire box full. Also it did take the time when installing mine last year to seal up around the blower box. There is some really big leaks around that box.

 

[Matt78]

Breendatomu... I believe you wanted a pic of around the blower. Seems to be a little gap between motor and furnace body, but not much air escaping.

 

[brenndatomu]

I know on my unit if I don't get the fire raging before letting it shut down I'm disappointed with the heat output. In the beginning of last year I was really getting frustrated with the unit. My issue was not letting it get hot enough

I know what you are saying, but I do have a raging fire...like I said earlier, it's hard to stand even remotely close to the door. The problem is a inferno in the firebox equals a warm chimney instead of a warm supply duct. Duct temps are good when the damper is open, but taper off after the damper closes, and fall too low to be of much good after a (too short) period of time. Running the firebox and stack temp up higher in the beginning prolongs the inevitable temp slide a bit, but not much. I am very happy with the ways this things burns...it is just not transferring the heat to the air well.

Maybe try to eliminate using the controller for right now and from a cold fire box let it burn for at least 20-25 mins.

I can set the controller at any temp so no need to discontinue using it

I plan to make another attempt at super cleaning the HEs again tomorrow night since there was still a layer of crud in there that wouldn't come off completely last time. I made an adapter to be able to spin my chimney brush with my drill, bare metal or bust!
If that doesn't help, then plenum here we come!

I did pull the side off last night, everything looked to be in order, saw no issues. I will post pics later for anybody that wants to see a nekked Tundra

 

[brenndatomu]

Breendatomu... I believe you wanted a pic of around the blower. Seems to be a little gap between motor and furnace body, but not much air escaping.
View attachment 168318

OK so the gap around the blower is still there, maybe a bit smaller than mine though. I sealed mine up because I remembered somebody posting that it leaked so much they couldn't hit .2 SP. Thanks for the pic

 

[brenndatomu]

I did pull the side off last night, everything looked to be in order, saw no issues. I will post pics later for anybody that wants to see a nekked Tundra

As promised...
Right side...
...toward the back
bottom, where the blower comes in, and the pedastal/ashpan area...
Another angle of the blower entrance...
Wider angle, you can see the damper actuator rod that runs front to rear...
The side panel with air deflector. It directs the air across the HEs and firebox top
Another angle, you can see the deflector is mounted on a inner double wall panel

 

[STIHLY DAN]

That does not seem to be an air deflector as much as it seems to be an air cooling gap for the side. I would think that panel should be reversed, Maybe the air is going between the panels instead of across the HE.

 

[DoubleB]

I think Stihly Dan might be on to something...Does the "HEATMAX" logo install on the rear or front of your furnace, pointing forward or backwards? I think it's supposed to install on the rear, but it looks like yours installs on the front? The point is they might have installed the left panel on the right side (and vice versa), and it looks like those deflectors currently force the air up and out from the back, instead of up and out from the front (past the firebox and HX).

I don't completely see the total plan, but maybe something easy to check.

EDIT: Look at the manual and it looks to me that your part 55 is installed in reverse.

 

[maple1]

I think Stihly Dan might be on to something...Does the "HEATMAX" logo install on the rear or front of your furnace, pointing forward or backwards? I think it's supposed to install on the rear, but it looks like yours installs on the front? The point is they might have installed the left panel on the right side (and vice versa), and it looks like those deflectors currently force the air up and out from the back, instead of up and out from the front (past the firebox and HX).

I don't completely see the total plan, but maybe something easy to check.

EDIT: Look at the manual and it looks to me that your part 55 is installed in reverse.

55- 'start off adaptor'? Looks OK to me? Or?

 

[brenndatomu]

That does not seem to be an air deflector as much as it seems to be an air cooling gap for the side

It's both

Maybe the air is going between the panels instead of across the HE.

Nah, from running it with the duct connection holes open, I can state that the deflectors are doing their job

Does the "HEATMAX" logo install on the rear or front of your furnace, pointing forward or backwards?

It's on the back, which is correct...the side panels fit on in a way that they can't be reversed
But the air deflectors...I think they are correct, but I will double check the them to make double sure they are not reversed. Edit: Duh, just looked at my own pictures, it looks the same as the parts diagram.

55- 'start off adaptor'? Looks OK to me? Or?

It depends which version of the manual you are looking at...the part reference #s change. The one that is online now shows # 31 and 57 being the left and right air deflectors

 

[brenndatomu]

I think I am on to something. I made an adapter so that I could spin my 6" chimney brush with my drill (thanks for the idea @Builderml ) and cleaned the heck outta the HEs last night (killed a fully charged L-ion battery!) I thought I had it spic n span in there until I looked very carefully with a bright light. There is a thin and highly polished layer of baked on soot/creosote covering patches in all 3 HEs. It is about as thick as a heavy layer of paint (think old house paint) and to the "untrained" eye, it looks like bare metal. I confirmed it was not metal by hitting it with the torch...yep, it popcorned up like creosote does when heated real hot! This stuff is really hard and the chimney brush will be worn out before it all comes off. Scraping it off with a sharp edge works but is very time consuming and it is hard to reach much of it. I'm gonna wheel my oxy/acetylene torch in tonight and finish burning it off. I thought about spraying it with kerosene and just lighting it... but thought better of doing that, probably make a mini chimney fire
I tried to get pics but the camera just didn't pic up what I was seeing in a way that shows up on the screen, sorry guys, gotta take my word on this one

 

[maple1]

One of those propane weed burner thingies might work too - could get it right in there. I think?

This is kinda like an Inspector Gadget episode - lol....

 

[Buzz Saw]

Is there any chemical available that would soften the creosote to make removal easier?

 

[brenndatomu]

One of those propane weed burner thingies might work too - could get it right in there. I think?

I have a torch set, but I would hafta find and then borrow/rent a "weed burner" so...good idea though

This is kinda like an Inspector Gadget episode - lol....

Is there any chemical available that would soften the creosote to make removal easier?

Probably, but it comes right off with a brush once you heat it to the "popcorn" stage

 

[trx250r87]

https://speedywhite.com/removing-creosote-with-speedy-white/

I have never personally used this but it sounds like it works.

Eric

 

[Buzz Saw]

I have a torch set, but I would hafta find and then borrow/rent a "weed burner" so...good idea though

Just tape a road flare to a yard stick [emoji12]

Probably, but it comes right off with a brush once you heat it to the "popcorn" stage

If it's that easy you should look into buying a whole case of flares. [emoji14]

 

[maple1]

Ok - now we're into Red Green territory...

 

[Highbeam]

As promised...
View attachment 168408 Right side...
View attachment 168409 ...toward the back
View attachment 168410 bottom, where the blower comes in, and the pedastal/ashpan area...
View attachment 168411 Another angle of the blower entrance...
View attachment 168412 Wider angle, you can see the damper actuator rod that runs front to rear...
View attachment 168413 The side panel with air deflector. It directs the air across the HEs and firebox top
View attachment 168414 Another angle, you can see the deflector is mounted on a inner double wall panel

So directly below the flue outlet on the back is another pipe that is below the top of the firebox. Is that the secondary air inlet? It seems big. What is it?

 

[brenndatomu]

So directly below the flue outlet on the back is another pipe that is below the top of the firebox. Is that the secondary air inlet? It seems big. What is it?

Oh, yeah, I see what you are referring to. That is the tube that the fan (blower) switch is in. That tube is open to the "controls" box on the back there

Ok - now we're into Red Green territory...

Ha! And if you are a member over on AS, then you know what (who) my avatar is

 

[brenndatomu]

This is kinda like an Inspector Gadget episode - lol....

Or maybe Scooby Doo, "The case of the missing heat"