Everything Fisher

comstock1869 · Nov 15, 2011

Anyone have any luck or knowledge regarding Auto Draft controls being added to a Fisher? Is there still a source for these and are they reliable and worth using?

Now that I have two newer style Grandpa Bear stoves, I would like to get a fire going in each and have the luxury of not having to tend them if I am away. The idea of choosing your desired temperature and now having to keep playing with the damper is nice.

I burn mostly red fir as I have a grove of it out yonder. Good and hot burning.

CamFan · Nov 15, 2011

Redbear86 said:

I'll have to double check to make sure there is no play at all, I did have to get the rubber mallet out to get the pins all the way down (after painting them) I also still need to put a little grease in them also. For moving the hinge plate I toyed with the idea of "slighty" heating them before "gently" tapping them in. I wouldn't do that until other options were exhausted

You said that you can see flame between the doors when looking from the side. I assume the doors still overlap with out seeing flame from the front of the stove. I have a Lopi Revere and I can see flame between the gasket and the door front and this is a new stove.

!st thing to do is to take a straight edge and open the doors. Put it on the lip of the left door that the right door over laps and where I think you are seeing the flame. If this is not flat none of the solutions below will help. The only thing that will help is to machine it flat or if you are good with a grinder use it. Then you may have to ajust with one of the following solutions. Rember this as you are doing this. Back in the day the Fishers were one of the first air tight stoves. They were not as tight as the stoves of today but they were a great improvement in the day.

If you move the hinge you COULD make it worse. Like Coaly said they are installed to not move. If you hit it hard enought to move it something else could go wrong and it will not shut at all.

Try this if you would. Shut the doors in a normal way. when it is in the closed position grab the handle of the fixed door or the left side. Move it like you are trying to pull it open and closed, open and closed. Is there any movement at all when you do this? If you can move the left side there are two things you can do. You open the door and the part of the right door handle that locks your door in place. If you heat the handle inside where it turns up You can tighten the doors together by then taping it towards the door. It does not take much to move it. I have a tool we made that slides over it and that way it only bends at the elbow where you heated it up. In time the heat of the stove and use and locking the door in place it can make this get out of adjustment. If your doors are shut in a normal fashion the angle of the right handle should look like the left side. If it is further to the right then tighten in this fashion.

Another thing to try and you may want to try this first. Take a dollar bill, with your doors open put the dollar on the hinge side of the left door over the channel where when the door shuts and you lock the right side in a normal manor try to pull the dollar out. Repeat this for the right side and between the doors last. If it slides out easy with out friction or fear of tearing the dollar you may can replace the gasket in the channel this could take the play out too.

If you are scratching your head and saying what??? Let me know. I have done so many of these I may not be clear in telling you how to do this. I may have to post some pictures or send me a pm and I can call you and talk you through it. If you think the thing to do is move the hinge you would be better off removing the hinges and clean them up and hang the doors again. I can talk you through this too. It is not hard, you just have to do things in a certain way to correct your problem. The stove will have to be on its back to hang the doors. So it would be a better summer project. After the stove is out and in the work area it would take about hours to remove the doors and hinges and replace them. It is not rocket science if you are used to welding etc.

Redbear86 · Nov 15, 2011

I feel pretty stupid, i havn't replaced the gasket in the channel yet, didn't even stop to think it would effect the fit in the middle!

coaly · Nov 16, 2011

Gasket ???? I thought you had a 76 with solid doors? No gasket is used, and if someone added one, the doors aren't going to shut tight in the center for sure. The doors can't close all the way. Clean all the old gasket cement off as well. That can be a mess if it isn't hard and brittle. Scrape and wire wheel so you get metal to metal contact.

Do the dollar bill test like you would close the bill in a fridge door to check the gasket. You should feel the same resistance when pulling it out all the way around.

CamFan · Nov 16, 2011

You can add gasket to probably 50% or better of the old stoves. It does not matter they did or did not come with it. If you have a Fisher without gasket the easy test to see if it will accept the gasket is to take a standard cardboard box and cut strips that will fit inside the channel on the the door front, sides and one for top and bottom . Just tuck it in and shut your doors. If it will still shut and lock normal you can add it. I have tested and done this to many stoves. If you have an old stove with out gasket and you are not satisfied with the burn time even with the draft caps shut down. You probably should try this test. Now it I agree it was not in the specs, drawings or in the production process but some things do work. It is like the baffles that are added. They did not come with them but it makes them better.

Redbear86 · Nov 16, 2011

Yea there was a gasket on there, I didn't put it together that it could be the problem, it did take a little excessive force to latch the doors too.

coaly · Nov 16, 2011

The 76 doors I have all have the round rod welded to the stove. And the doors are cast with a round groove to match. Not channel iron with a three contact sealing surface. Never added gasket material to one of those.

I usually add, "if you feel it seals better, use the flat type material in the channel, not round". And if you're replacing gasket someone has added, clean off the first layer of cement, since it will get too thick very easily and cause door closing problems.

CamFan · Nov 16, 2011

I agree that you would not want to add gasket to the stove with the rod versus the channel . When I got involved nothing but channel was used on stoves. I have not even seen many with the rod. With that in mind I did not think about the rod style front stoves. I do not think the SE factory used that method for long. I do not know if my #1 stove has rod or channel. That does not matter to me I just wanted the stove. I will look at the stove today to see if they started production using rod or channel. I do know Carl was building stoves in Idaho before moving to Georgia to start this factory. If he felt using the channel was better than the Rod that is what he would have done.

coaly · Nov 16, 2011

The first cast thin flat doors that have Fisher - Stove across the top used the flat channel welded to the stove. All the single doors with Fir trees added used the same seal. The first double doors with the '76 were different. It was a Jake Jackson thing I'm sure, to not copy Fisher's stove exactly. When he started making Frontier, he stuck with the 1/2" round rod and had his doors cast with the round channel. Fisher then made their double doors with the square channel and stayed with it. I've only seen the round seal used on Grandpa Bears that was discussed and pictured here; http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/76349/

coaly · Nov 16, 2011

comstock1869 said:

Anyone have any luck or knowledge regarding Auto Draft controls being added to a Fisher? Is there still a source for these and are they reliable and worth using?

They worked, 2 brands come to mind. Both, like anything else that was good are no longer made.
Sotz and Condar.

Redbear86 · Nov 18, 2011

3-piece top '76 grandpa on e-bay for $395, kinda neat looking

coaly · Nov 18, 2011

Fabricators, under contract had to buy the doors from Fisher only, but could purchase hardware locally. At the time, the recently invented draft caps of his fathers were being used on the Baxter Stove that wasn't selling. Bob's brother Don wanted him to sell his dad's stove along with his, which became a sore subject. So Don asked him if he would just take over making and selling the draft caps, since Bob felt that was the only thing good about the Baxter Stove. Bob felt his family would acccuse him of cheating his family, so declined. Bob told Don how many fisher Stoves were selling, and with the need for the cap, they could keep the price low and sell lots. '"Better to sell cheap, go for volume" Bob told him. But Don didn't believe that many stoves were being sold, and was afraid to sell them cheap. They kept it in their own names and started selling them for $4.50 a set. Some fabricators bought pipe caps to keep their building cost lower. A Utah fabricator started making their own draft cap. As Bob predicted, $4.50 a set would be too much. This was the stress that was added to Bob's life. He had to design and patent a draft cap of his own. He did, the 5 fin cap that became the most common, and was sold to many other stove manufacturers. They are still available today.
That's the reason for the variety seen today in Fisher Stoves through their development.

This early Grandpa you found without the draft caps and handles purchased from Fisher is in Alabama, and pictured in the detailed Grandpa thread here;
http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/76349/

This would have been the Grandpa and Grandma being sold at the time with the "correct" hardware" available from Fisher.

CamFan · Nov 18, 2011

Like I said Coaly has information I did not know about. I have some of the 4 fin draft caps and 5 but not enough to get rid of any. I did not know the history of them and why the change. Interesting. Do you have a picture of the Baxter Stove? I would like to see that. Where can you still buy the draft caps?

Keep in mind I did not do the buisness end, I just worked there. I do know at some point all of our doors came from Alabama. Carl had all the molds sent back to him when things came to a halt and Carl sold them for scrap. I managed to find one that did not get scraped. I would imagine he did this to save freight charges accross the country. Do you know how royalties were paid? Were they in the cost of the door? Or paid seperate? That would be interesting to know and may shed some light on why the doors started coming from Alabama.

coaly · Nov 18, 2011

I don't have a picture of the actual stove. Here's the patent drawing for the Baxter Stove; He was obsessed with building an oven into Bob's stove. This one has an oven door on each side. He wanted Bob to sell it along side his, but he said no way. It had far too many parts and Bob's theory was to keep it simple.
http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/72968/

Royalties were paid separately, Bob (Carol) kept track of accounts receivable by the number of doors sent. Once it became Fisher International and Bob stepped down, I have no idea. When it was Bobs small business only, no one else was allowed to make their own doors.

Barr Casting Inc. in Portland Oregon has the original molds. They are available here, cast in the material of your choice. They no longer list brass as pictured on their site, but they will cast them in whatever you need. Their brass caps were really nice and cheaper than bronze.
http://www.barrcasting.com/draft.html

email me if you want to take advantage of bulk pricing. I've been kicking around "The Fisher Parts Store" a long time.

CamFan · Nov 18, 2011

Doors are still available? I trashed a bunch of goldilocks doors since to machine them to work was not cost effective.

I have sorted some drawings I think you will like I just have not made copies. I will tho. I do not have velums so they will have to be black line copies. I would imagine Fisher only had the velums for original blue line drawings.

I saw an old post of yours showing a curved thinner hinge ontop of a door. I have those. I did not know where they came from or where they were used. Probably when he bought someone out and bought their parts.

coaly · Nov 19, 2011

Doors are out there, it's a matter of shipping and finding someone locally to search for you. Since WA and OR, and now CA went with the EPA Certified stove use only law, quite a few have been scrapped in those western states. Here's link to a dealer in Oregon that offers stove removal. Check out their stove stair climber. I could have used one of those a few times ! http://stoves.com/stove-removal/
They may glean the doors off them for you if you ask. Shipping is the killer, figure approx. a buck a pound UPS Ground. So you have to get them at a good price.
I have 2 contacts in the western states with doors. One has 2 sets of GM and one set of GP, and 3 GM rights. These are new old stock nickel as is from foundry. $20 a piece. ($40 a set plus shipping is approx. $80 per set) I have pictures if interested. The other occasionally gets Insert doors complete, from used scrap stoves. I think he has one set now in CA. Not sure of his price, he tried ebay last year, and they didn't sell. He is THE best source for reconditioned Fisher Stoves on eBay. Many of his stoves are pictured in this thread, and he is soon to be a member here.
Over the years, Inserts were the least favorable and scrapped more than stoves. Using the Grandma doors, this would be in your favor. Scrap yards close to where they were made is the key to finding them since those areas were more populated with the new stoves.
UPS has increased their maximum shipping weight from 70# to I believe 100# per box. Here's the door weights without handles or draft caps; GM 22#, GP 23#, . So 4 doors per box works with them. Used doors with handles and caps are a mess to ship in much larger boxes. Been there. Figure roughly a buck a pound Ground shipping.

You know I'll appreciate any drawings, and reimburse you copy and shipping charges. They will not be posted anywhere to prevent another wave of copy cat stove builders, I assure you.

The curved hinge plates were welded to the stove front instead of the angle iron corners as shown below on both GM and GP. I call them "outboard" since they are both outside the door hinge ears. Maybe some revised prints will show a different door mounting?? Not sure what they are and where they came from. I'm sure studying those prints will give me a multitude of new questions.

Finest Fishers · Nov 20, 2011

What an informative neat website and page with threads for the classic Fisher Wood Stove! Going to go back and read from the begining, will take a month or so, but definately will read in spare time (spare time lol).

comstock1869 · Nov 20, 2011

Welcome to the group!

You will find a wealth of knowledge here, especially from 2 or so real Fisher oriented types. These are great stoves for primary or supplemental heating.

coaly · Nov 20, 2011

Welcome to the forum Finest Fishers !

You can go back to your first post and try the "edit" button to add more of your work anytime. The folks here won't get tired of your stoves. I didn't waste any time posting that Grandpa on post #33 here; http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/76349/P0/ :coolgrin:

BTW, This IS the guy with the Finest Fishers.

If you would like an avatar, feel free to go back this thread and use any one of your stoves pictured. :red:

Finest Fishers · Nov 21, 2011

Hello, And thank you Coaly and Comstock for the welcome.
Coaly Im indebted to you for the kind help and encouragement to me with the Fisher Stove line up. Its become such a interesting and fun hobby working with each stove. Your passion for the stoves and history behind the stoves and the innovator master is comendable. I get joy from tinkering on my early first generation Camaro's...now this stove hunting and care restoring them has become a joy as well.

Rexanne · Nov 24, 2011

I have recently sold my house and am sitting in front of my Grandpa Bear with two feet of snow outside and enjoying my last couple of weeks with my stove! This forum has been great and Coaly was a lot of help with cleaning up and rebricking my stove. I am building a new house and not sure what type of stove I am putting in looking at Hearthstone, Vermont Casting and Lopi. Anyone have any good ideas...besides another Fisher of course! I live on an island so my options are limited.

CamFan · Nov 24, 2011

Personally I like the Lopi the best. I have been burning a Revere for years with out any problems. I settled on the Lopi for I felt it was built very simple and without alot of parts to wear out and need replacing. I also felt the construction was the closest to the Fisher and I was sure used to them. So far I have been totally satisfied. We sell woodstoves and we also burn a Heartstone at the buisness and it heats a large area. I like it too but still would pick a Lopi again for the house. The Hearthstone takes longer to heat up but it will stay hot longer after the fire is out. If you are gone all day and want to heat it up fast the Hearthstone may not be for you. Buying a stove is like buying a car. You are the one that needs to be happy. Good Luck

coaly · Nov 24, 2011

Glad it worked out. You'll be in that newfangled stove forum soon. I hear a little whale oil gets those secondaries to light right up. That's not my expertise.
Lopi Liberty is the "New Grandpa". Looks just like the first Grandpa made ! Maybe in another month, the dogs can pull one out to your island.

Rexanne · Nov 24, 2011

Thanks Guys! After reading everything I can on this forum I am pretty sure I am going to go with the Lopi because it does sound like a pretty simple stove. I am downsizing though so it will be the Endeavor or Republic 1750. No more Grandpa Stoves for me...my stove presently heats up 2233 square feet with no problem and I am downsizing to about 1200 square feet. I will continue to check out this thread though as I find all of you very interersting and I enjoy all the information that is on here. Maybe the Lopi threads will get some interesting people on them!!

R-J. · Dec 15, 2011

Hello, new to this site.

I have pre 80 papa bear made by Hesston Corp in Hesston KS.
Stove is in good shape other than needing some new fire brick.

Has one 4 fin vent cap with a device called Fuel Saver II on the other vent. This device looks like it was made from a tin can, does anyone know how well they work?

R.J.

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