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Everything Fisher

Post in 'Fisher Stove Information, Parts, History and More' started by coaly, Feb 24, 2010.

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  1. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome to the Forum; Can't answer your question, but if you start a new thread with the name of the product in the title, someone may recognize it or give you info on auto draft controls. Chances are they won't find your question in a Fisher specific thread.
    Now to help you bring your stove back to it's original condition, we can help you with that here.

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  2. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    I have a feeling that device is something like a condar stove temp........that is, a bimetallic damper. See:
    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/53332/P420/#1005445

    Whether it still works - or how well it ever worked, is an open question. If you study it carefully and see what it does when it is a cool and then when hot (It should open when cool, and close when very hot, relative to where you set it).....
  3. fordss

    fordss New Member

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    I just got a mama bear wood stove and the bottom is marked pa 5225 what does the number stand for?
  4. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    it is generally the serial # or the number of stoves built. Pa may have been the builder of the stove. Where did you buy it?
  5. fordss

    fordss New Member

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    At an auction in pa I figured the pa was for the state it was made in.
  6. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    You are probably right We added the numbers and it was the volume of stoves built and serial # now I talked with the old plant manager last week and he said laughing that when things were in the peak some of those may not be assigned in correct order. There were to many people involved. :)
  7. Redbear86

    Redbear86 Member

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    my stove has a small production number on the back - right below the top plate, it starts with ID, which makes me believe it was made in Idaho- it was initialed on the bottom plate BA in cursive, i think that was the builder
  8. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    The numbers started out as a serial number, and later when tags were sent to apply to the back, the tags were already stamped with a number, but they continued with the bottom number as well in weld with a PA after the number. So I call it a "stove number".

    Factoryville, PA. Rt. 6 Near Scranton, was known as "Fisher Stoves of Pennsylvania" owned by Marion and Mary Moore. (They were relatives of Cal Cotton who bought the license for New York state, had his license revoked, and later built the Timberline stove. It was a difficult time for Marion and Mary, but they stayed on good terms with Bob) The owners of the stove shop now, Dave and Bridgett Hoff were workers there when they were in production. Still in business, they never changed their name from "Fisher Stoves Factory Showroom". Pictures of the store front and old signs around the shop are posted earlier on this thread. Post #283 is outside, Post #315 is in the shop. They have their first stove #1 made there, a Papa Bear at their home. They also have a customer list of who bought what number.
    My Mama from PA is #4218. 8/19/77

    Attached Files:

  9. fordss

    fordss New Member

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    Thanks for all the great info.

    Any tips you can give me to help with the learning curve of using a mama-bear? I plan on putting in a baffel like you told me about before and replacing the firebrick.
    Thanks I advance.
  10. mla181

    mla181 New Member

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    Hello. Does anyone know what the vents are at the bottom of this stove. I am going to clean this up and use it in my home.

    Attached Files:

  11. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    In July of 1977, there is a revision of prints for the Mama and Papa showing the added rear and bottom shields. The model was designated Mama and Papa II. The plate with holes across the front is not shown on the prints, it was to be left open. Two shields with two part numbers, no holes in shields. The shields were also bolted on with pan head bolts and nuts. This bottom shield keeps the floor cool to cold under the stove. Without it, floor temps are quite hot and requires 4 inch bricks, with ventilated holes horizontal, open on the ends, laid close together on a piece of 24 ga. sheet metal over a combustible floor. With the factory shield, a 2 inch solid paver over 24 ga. sheet metal is all that's required. (it became the UL Listed stove) This pad must also extend 18 inches minimum around the stove.
  12. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    my guess is that someone added this as an atempt to make a heat sheild. It has holes in the front sides and the bottom. I have never seen one like that. One reason I think it was added by an owner. A good sandblasting and paint it will be fine. You will have to get the oil off the door. Take the cap off the door, remove the nuts and bolt out of the cap. Use a 1/2" tap and run it in the cap to clean out the threads and run a die up the bolt. All will be fine then. Good luck and it will be good for another 15-20 years. :)
  13. mla181

    mla181 New Member

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    Oh ok cool. Thanks for the information about the shields. We broke a leg on this when we pulled it out of the basement so i am taking it to the local welding shop. Would it be wise to have them install a baffle while its there? Do you have specs for the baffle anywhere?
  14. BillsWS

    BillsWS Feeling the Heat

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    First post. Bought a Fisher today, 1976. Is this a Grandma or a Grandpa bear?
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
  15. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    Just looking at it I would say a GrandPa, how wide is the top from left to right? Is it closer to 25 1/2"? Or 30"? Grandma is 25 1/2 and grandpa is 30
  16. BillsWS

    BillsWS Feeling the Heat

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    Ok CamFan, I will check the width. I did find a manual online and it printed up fine.
  17. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    The doors could have a GP or a GM on the inside that would also tell you. what it is.
  18. firecracker_77

    firecracker_77 Minister of Fire

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  19. BillsWS

    BillsWS Feeling the Heat

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    What was the last year the Fisher's where made? I missed a 1980 model last week. Were there any big changes from mid 70's to the 80's? I have to read this manual again, but in a post here somewerhe it talked about putting 4" of brick on top of a metal sheet for protection over combustable floors - that seems exessive. Did the later models satisfy EPA or insurance standards?
  20. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    we were the last factory to my knowledge. We quit makeing them as to the EPA terms and for some reason I am thinking 1992, but it was whatever they demanded if my date in not correct. We had a period where we could sell what we had but could not make them.
  21. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    BillsWS; It's a Grandma. Trees almost touch at the center. Grandpa has a larger space.
    No Fisher satisfied EPA standards. When they became more strict in 1988, they closed down with many others. Post #8 of this thread gives a link to archived news article detailing the laws and how many manufactureres it affected.

    All the stoves "satisfy insurance standards". It's installation, not the stove. As long as it's installed to the standard for non-UL Listed stoves in NFPA 211. Local codes, and some states have made mandatory removal laws of non-EPA stoves. WA, OR and CA. (so far)
    You can find all sorts of mis-information on the net worded like your question "insurance standards" or "parts are no longer made, and difficult to repair". All BS. Find another insurance co. that will cover an unlisted stove. Draft caps are still made, hinge pins and anything else you need are available. Steel plate is the easiest thing to weld and very fixable compared to cast iron.

    4 inches of ventilated brick over 24 ga. metal is required under a unlisted stove with 6 inch or less legs. It's not excessive. This is considered a "Hearth" over combustible surface.
    Please read; http://hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/wood_stove_clearances_installing_it_safely

    Changes; Your 76 is the only doors with round seal. All others after that are 1 inch channel like all other pre 1980 models. Other revisions were a "Draft Box" in 77, changing the model to a GM or GP II. Draft cap changes from 4 to 5 fin, and different spring handles, and finally arch top doors for 1980 were used on some old style 4 piece boxes that were changed to a 1 piece wrap around corner in 1980. Smoke Shelf baffle was added and these were designated GM and GP III.

    July 1, 1986 was the first emission standard all stove manufacturers had to abide by. It became more strict July 1. 1988. The end of production.
  22. BillsWS

    BillsWS Feeling the Heat

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    Thank you for the info and link Coaly. Is Bob Fisher still alive and did he end up doing OK financially? I read the book posted free online and it really didn't say. I saw a picture of Mr. Fisher on his tractor but I don't know how recent that was.
  23. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    That was taken just before his 70th birthday last August. Carol is 69 and doing fine as well.
    Yeah, he did good. After the book was written they took control of the company again. Trademarked the "Teddy Bear" and "Cub Bear" insert in 1984 under BOBCAR FARMS incorpoated with his wife. http://www.trademarkia.com/company-bobcar-farms-inc-164263-page-1-2
    Still on his 115 acres and posting hay ads for sale from time to time.
  24. CamFan

    CamFan Member

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    Good moring, Coaly I know you have mounds of stuff to look at and to pull from but due to the epa rules there was a clause if you filled out a small manufacture form they provided and you only made the amount of stoves that quailified you as a small manufactur we could make them for 2 more years. If I remember right the amount of stoves we could build each year was 250. The second year we could only make the same number of stoves as we were able to make the first year. So if the Epa rules for factories ended in 1988 we were able to make them until 1990 and had 2 years to get rid of inventory. This would take us to 1992 to shut our doors I was wrong with the dates. After we went through all we went through and we closed our doors all it was then was the occasonal visitor and their story. That is until a couple of months ago when I found this forum.

    The first time the EPa came in they flashed badges like the Gestapo, they acted like they were too. They wanted to tell us what we were going to do. At this time I gave all the inspection tours to them. The Second wave of EPa Gestapo was very demanding but not as bad as the first group. Then we had one agent assigned to us and he tried to be Gestapo like but by then I was not accepting that type of attitude. The idea of them flashing badges and telling you what they would do was no longer intimidating. Generally if we got a call to see if we were there and they were no more than 10 to 15 minutes away. After we had a lets get over your attitude talk my assigned agent became much better. He came now by himself and followed us through the process until it was over for American made non compliant stoves. But you could still file for an exempt status if they were for cooking and some other ways I can not remember. We did not quailify, with the exception of cooking and that would be borderline. But if you imported them you could still bring in non compliant crap from China and Tiwan and sell them at lowes and hardware stores. I had real issues with this. You can still find imported junk.

    So I guess with this said you can add to your research and check this out and have the complete story. I am not being ugly my friend so please do not take it that way. It is like any history lesson that can change when new facts are found. I have no interest in keeping up with what you do. I have no clue how you can keep up with everything, it is a great tribute to Bobby Fisher, and Fisher stoves. That is why I am willing to send you stuff as I find it. I have boxes and boxes of stuff and I bet I still have the forms filled out for the small manufactures exemption. The next time I go through stuff I will cull all I can legally, I am tired of keeping it and moving around. IF we could start building them again that was my passion and I would do it in a heart beat.
  25. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for everything you add to the history I put together as well. I started years ago putting information together mainly from stove sales on the Internet, pictures posted of members stoves on the forum, then build dates, and archived news articles. The book written by Claudia Lynn gave a lot of basic information to research and fill in many details. I did it all with no help from anyone in the industry. (except Craig for the availability of the book)
    I was aware the stoves already made could be sold, but wasn't aware a limited number could be made after the date the standards came into effect. The Cookstove exemption is still in effect. Perhaps Baxters idea of adding an oven would have changed history.
    Here's one of the articles I couldn't find for the life of me yesterday that gives an overview of the new laws coming into effect, and manufacturer's responses.
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...q=wood stove manufacturer oregon fisher&hl=en

    I've changed my findings on stove sizes and dates so many times in my notebook, I've had to replace entire pages. I would start out in pencil, until something documented it, then change it over to pen. So my code was anything in pen was documented and I wasn't afraid to publish it. Then came revisions that made my work appear to be incorrect. Very frustrating until you came along with inside information, (and prints !) that ties it together more than you know.

    The next obstacle was finding many news articles and personal information that shouldn't be repeated to protect the living, and their privacy. I never thought this thread would touch on personal information, but some articles with history contain information about individuals still living that I don't want to post. Tax evasion by licensees, obituaries, birth announcements, (even Bob's) trademark and patent forms showing his address, and other workers that he allowed to patent things like the door latch contain their personal information I don't want to post.

    The book only touches on the beginning of the company until the first convention of all licensees on June 23, 1977. Many changes took place after this, with big changes and UL approval. Many models were added in the 80's that the complete story can only be put together interviewing the people that made it happen. People like you, willing to share the experience of what became more than a job.
    I thank you again, and all the others that have helped put more together than I ever imagined.

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