Experience with Harman XXV

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Doug Fowler

New Member
Nov 6, 2008
12
Northern Michigan
Installed in October 08. Worked fine until early Jan 09 when we began getting a three blink error code (ESP Sensor). Cleaned and vacuumed everything front and back, in and out on recommendation of you kind folks here, as well as the dealer. Found almost no fines or ash anywhere. Clean as a whistle. Reassembled everything and it worked fine for an hour or so when I noticed the three blink code had returned. Called the dealer, he sent out the service person in two days; he replaced the circuit board, "Esp sensors are rarely ever defective," he said. I thanked him for the good service and he replied that, "Of course, we want happy customers." Within an hour after he left the three blink code started again. Now, I should emphasize that up to this point, with the exception of the VISUAL ESP ERROR CODE there was no change in the actual operation of the stove, combustion blower, distribution blower, feed motor or stove temps........all worked fine and kept the stove end of the house 70 degrees and the master bedroom end 65 degrees.

I was happy.

I called the service person to advise him that the error code came back on soon after he left. He replied that the dealer had just received a recall notice from Harman on the ESP Sensor, he said replacements were "on the way" and "as soon as they come in" he would return to change it out. That was going on two weeks ago.

Within two days of the circuit board change-out, followed by the immediate return of the three blink code, the stove began operating very strangely and has continued so since. The repair person was here a week ago last Monday (today being thursday of the following week). The distribution blower suddenly began turning-off every time the feed motor came on; at the same time the ignitor would come on and remain on until the feed motor shut-off, whereupon the distribution blower would then begin to slowly spool up, but only to about mid-speed, never fast enough from then on to sufficiently heat the room. The room with the stove in it has not been above 66 degrees for the past nine days and the other end of the house no higher than 58 degrees.

last evening (Wednesday), suddenly and spontaneously, the distribution motor stopped shutting down when the feed motor came on, and the ignitor suddenly stopped coming on then at the same time.....BUT, everything is still only about half-speed and half-tempreture.

I have called the store owner, who referred me to the service person. I have called the service person three times on his cell phone and I have also spoken with a salesperson who promised me he would leave a message for the service person. With each call I left messages asking to be informed as to when I could expect the problem to be resolved........to no avail. Today, I called the Harman Factory at 717-362-9080 hoping I could get them to over-night ship an ESP Sensor. I would have been happy to pay for it as well as the shipping. That was an exercize in futility. The phone was auto-answered and after being directed to press certain buttons until I got to the customer service department, I was left on hold for 30 minutes. I have no doubt it was intentional......I finally hung up.

I am not happy.
 
My XXV was also installed in OCT-08 and I have had many problems with mine, but not like yours. Mostly my problems have been with the auger gearmotor. They will be coming out soon to replace the gearmotor again due to excessive gear noise this time. This will be the 5th motor since OCT. The dealer did replace the control board once due to an inconsistent startup timer for the auger motor resulting in too many pellets in the burn pot at startup. Harman knows they have gearmotor problems and so far have not come up with a (different) motor, they just keep replacing with the same design.

Hope they get your problem straightened out.......................
 
Billy ask your dealer if they would take the ESP out of a display model in the showroom....... I would not run the stove with the ESP malfunctioning...... The stove does some weird things, as you've noticed when the ESP is messed up...some of which can be considered UNSAFE... :bug:

Goatman, does your XXV have the direct drive or chain drive? Which model gearmotor?
 
Fly Speck Billy said:
Installed in October 08. Worked fine until early Jan 09 when we began getting a three blink error code (ESP Sensor). Cleaned and vacuumed everything front and back, in and out on recommendation of you kind folks here, as well as the dealer. Found almost no fines or ash anywhere. Clean as a whistle. Reassembled everything and it worked fine for an hour or so when I noticed the three blink code had returned. Called the dealer, he sent out the service person in two days; he replaced the circuit board, "Esp sensors are rarely ever defective," he said. I thanked him for the good service and he replied that, "Of course, we want happy customers." Within an hour after he left the three blink code started again. Now, I should emphasize that up to this point, with the exception of the VISUAL ESP ERROR CODE there was no change in the actual operation of the stove, combustion blower, distribution blower, feed motor or stove temps........all worked fine and kept the stove end of the house 70 degrees and the master bedroom end 65 degrees.

I was happy.

I called the service person to advise him that the error code came back on soon after he left. He replied that the dealer had just received a recall notice from Harman on the ESP Sensor, he said replacements were "on the way" and "as soon as they come in" he would return to change it out. That was going on two weeks ago.

Within two days of the circuit board change-out, followed by the immediate return of the three blink code, the stove began operating very strangely and has continued so since. The repair person was here a week ago last Monday (today being thursday of the following week). The distribution blower suddenly began turning-off every time the feed motor came on; at the same time the ignitor would come on and remain on until the feed motor shut-off, whereupon the distribution blower would then begin to slowly spool up, but only to about mid-speed, never fast enough from then on to sufficiently heat the room. The room with the stove in it has not been above 66 degrees for the past nine days and the other end of the house no higher than 58 degrees.

last evening (Wednesday), suddenly and spontaneously, the distribution motor stopped shutting down when the feed motor came on, and the ignitor suddenly stopped coming on then at the same time.....BUT, everything is still only about half-speed and half-tempreture.

I have called the store owner, who referred me to the service person. I have called the service person three times on his cell phone and I have also spoken with a salesperson who promised me he would leave a message for the service person. With each call I left messages asking to be informed as to when I could expect the problem to be resolved........to no avail. Today, I called the Harman Factory at 717-362-9080 hoping I could get them to over-night ship an ESP Sensor. I would have been happy to pay for it as well as the shipping. That was an exercize in futility. The phone was auto-answered and after being directed to press certain buttons until I got to the customer service department, I was left on hold for 30 minutes. I have no doubt it was intentional......I finally hung up.

I am not happy.

You definatly need a new ESP probe and ESP probes fail all the time. Your service person is full of it. My insert started doing that back in october. I had to change to the new board and new ESP probe. You can try unplugging your unit, letting it sit, and plug it back in. That will reset the board. It may work a day or two months, but the prblem will come back. You need a new ESP probe. PM me and I'll send you one if no one else will.
 
goatman-68 said:
My XXV was also installed in OCT-08 and I have had many problems with mine, but not like yours. Mostly my problems have been with the auger gearmotor. They will be coming out soon to replace the gearmotor again due to excessive gear noise this time. This will be the 5th motor since OCT. The dealer did replace the control board once due to an inconsistent startup timer for the auger motor resulting in too many pellets in the burn pot at startup. Harman knows they have gearmotor problems and so far have not come up with a (different) motor, they just keep replacing with the same design.

Hope they get your problem straightened out.......................

In my experience, i have had people calling about noise coming while the motor is feeding. I can not speak for your stove, but in the past, I have found it to be a creasote or carbon build up in or at the end of the auger tube. It is a grinding noise. I have replaced like five gear motors in my time. I don't believe the problem is with the gear motor, but i'm just a redneck from PA. This has been a complaint of several XXV's. Trying turning the stove up to MAX for about an hour, that usualy is enough to burn it out. If it is too persistant, the auger tube may need to be cleaned.
 
GVA........

Well, I guess that's another black mark for the dealer AND Harman. At no time have they suggested not running the stove when the ESP is screwed up, nor does the stove manual suggest that. In fact, it seems strange that no where in the manual is there a list of unsafe conditions under which the stove should not be operated. And further, if a defective ESP sensor is a safety hazard, obviously it is of no great concern to them because there sure isn't any evidence of their caring to move expediciously to fix the problem.

After reading a lot of threads on here and on other similar web sites, I am pretty much coming to the conclusion that the wood stove industry is a long way from acheiving any kind of standards, let alone high standards, for customer service. Sadly, most of what you read are simply excuses rather than sincere efforts to raise those standards. In a lot of cases those excuses are even coming from CUSTOMERS who have obviously been fed a line of crap from their dealers and the manufacturers themselves (if they can even get through to the manufacturer).

Good customer service, in ANY business or industry is first and foremost based on good two-way communication......not hiding from and making every effort to avoid customers after the sale. Second, it means stocking parts by the dealers, or, in the absence of that, the manufacturer should have parts on hand to be shipped over-night and a customer service person who will cheerfully do that. In today's wholesale and retail market dealers do not have to stock multiples of parts or motors. In other words, there need be very little stock on-hand (which consumes and ties up capital) beyond one of each of items......when used to repair or replace something defective on the product items can be replaced time a very timely manner by shipping from the manufacturer within two days; thus stock is always on hand, capital expense is minimal, and customers are happy.

Today's stoves are high-tech products not the simple pot-bellied stoves of yore that once sold could be forgotten........
 
Pyro Gyro said:
goatman-68 said:
My XXV was also installed in OCT-08 and I have had many problems with mine, but not like yours. Mostly my problems have been with the auger gearmotor. They will be coming out soon to replace the gearmotor again due to excessive gear noise this time. This will be the 5th motor since OCT. The dealer did replace the control board once due to an inconsistent startup timer for the auger motor resulting in too many pellets in the burn pot at startup. Harman knows they have gearmotor problems and so far have not come up with a (different) motor, they just keep replacing with the same design.

Hope they get your problem straightened out.......................

In my experience, i have had people calling about noise coming while the motor is feeding. I can not speak for your stove, but in the past, I have found it to be a creasote or carbon build up in or at the end of the auger tube. It is a grinding noise. I have replaced like five gear motors in my time. I don't believe the problem is with the gear motor, but i'm just a redneck from PA. This has been a complaint of several XXV's. Trying turning the stove up to MAX for about an hour, that usualy is enough to burn it out. If it is too persistant, the auger tube may need to be cleaned.

Pyro Gyro -- I know what you are talking about (grinding) but that was not the case with mine. The dealer confirmed that all the gearboxes were defective or became defective due to a mounting bracket being tweeked, putting a side load on the oilite bushing. On two motors the bushing wore causing the gear noise. Then they found the mount was not formed correctly causing the auger to pilot onto the shaft to far so the setscrew was not on the flat part of the shaft, that galled the shaft on the last gearmotor. This is the new direct drive system on my XXV, and the motors are Gleason Avery.....................
 
I used to keep one of everything on hand and reorder as used. Not anymore, I have to keep 4 of some because it takes so damn ling just to get the parts from manufacturers. Some parts are back up as much as two weeks. It seems that good customer service is questionable most places. We try to help out everyone. We don't always know the answers, but at least we try.
 
goatman-68 said:
Pyro Gyro -- I know what you are talking about (grinding) but that was not the case with mine. The dealer confirmed that all the gearboxes were defective or became defective due to a mounting bracket being tweeked, putting a side load on the oilite bushing. On two motors the bushing wore causing the gear noise. Then they found the mount was not formed correctly causing the auger to pilot onto the shaft to far so the setscrew was not on the flat part of the shaft, that galled the shaft on the last gearmotor. This is the new direct drive system on my XXV, and the motors are Gleason Avery.....................

Have not run into that problem yet, but we havn't sold many stoves with the new feeders. I'll keep that in mind for the future.
 
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