1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Fancy pants 2 stroke chain saw oil?

Post in 'The Gear' started by greythorn3, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,473
    Loc:
    Arrow Bridge,NY
    I'm also interested in more info as I have nearly 2 cases of outboard oil I got at a yard sale for next to nothing that I'm about to start using.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. TreePointer

    TreePointer Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,111
    Loc:
    Western PA
    Also, I do understand that there are special formulations (multi-purpose) that are supposed to work fine in either type of 2-cycle engine.
  3. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,718
    Loc:
    Shelton, WA
    Has anyone on this board EVER seen an OIL RELATED failure? Ever?

    I never have. Not in outboards, chainsaws, or motorcycles (lots of hours with all three). And, I don't know anyone who has.

    Straight gassed? Yes.

    Jetted lean? Yes.

    Failed because of type of oil in an otherwise properly tuned engine? No. Never.
  4. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,718
    Loc:
    Shelton, WA
    I have burned gallons on TCW-3 in non-outboard 2 strokes. Your saws will love it.
  5. TreePointer

    TreePointer Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,111
    Loc:
    Western PA

    Link?
  6. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,718
    Loc:
    Shelton, WA
    So I guess the number for you is zero as well?

    I just googled "premix oil related engine failures"

    Zero articles on "I used the wrong oil and burned up my engine"
  7. TreePointer

    TreePointer Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,111
    Loc:
    Western PA
    In an effort to get statements from qualified persons (more knowledgeable than I am) and not uncontrolled data or anecdotal evidence, I've just put in some requests and will make more requests for technical papers (and otherwise) to various OPE manufacturers and oil companies regarding this issue. I'll post the information as soon as I get replies. Maybe I'll make a new discussion topic for this.

    Here are MORE LINKS that support NOT USING WATER-COOLED OIL in chainsaws:

    Reference link: http://husqvarna.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/122/kw/2_cycle_oil
    Excerpt:
    Reference link (any modern Stihl chainsaw manual - MS362 manual p.28, PDF page 30): http://www.stihlusa.com/stihl_ownersmanuals/MS362_Manual.pdf
    Excerpt:
  8. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,718
    Loc:
    Shelton, WA
    FACT: All TCW-3 oils exceed both JASCO and API standards for premix oil.
  9. TreePointer

    TreePointer Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,111
    Loc:
    Western PA
    Yea, but that statement doesn't necessarily mean that Stihl (and other OPE manufacturers) approves TC-W3 oils for all their equipment, especially the new strato engines and 4-mix engines.
  10. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,718
    Loc:
    Shelton, WA
    But we're talking about a 044 here, no? And do you think the Stihl branded oil is differently formulated for the fancy new low emissions saws? Like they sent new oil to dealers especially for the new saws? Really? You think that?
  11. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,718
    Loc:
    Shelton, WA
    Also, API and JASCO ratings are not the be-all and end-all, but they are the only standards by which premix oil is actually tested and rated.
  12. TreePointer

    TreePointer Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,111
    Loc:
    Western PA
    I never stated that Stihl branded oil is differently formulated for new low emissions laws. The new engines and overall designs are. There is still a "no TCW oils" statement for those engines. What I was attempting to state is that it's even more important now to use the right oil. Stihl dealer techs. will tell you that even regular Stihl oil (orange bottle) will cause problems in the 4-Mix engines--they've seen it many times. And, no, when it comes to the 4-Mix engines, it's not just a ploy by Stihl to get us to buy more expensive full-synthetic Stihl Ultra.

    Here's the unanswered question: Why does Stihl say no TCW oils in the MS-362 manual?
  13. TreePointer

    TreePointer Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,111
    Loc:
    Western PA
    They are the only industry wide standards that are recognized if you want to pay them money to have it printed on your oil bottle. It doesn't preclude Stihl or any other OPE mfg. from using a higher standard or special requirement on their own equipment. There's no reason that Stihl can't say API and JASCO rated oils are okay as long as they are not rated for water cooled engines.
  14. TreePointer

    TreePointer Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,111
    Loc:
    Western PA
    That ^
  15. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Because TCW is short for Two-Cycle Water-cooled. The standard ONLY applies to WATER-COOLED engines. Is somebody running a water-cooled 044 here? Just because a good oil is TCW-3 certified does NOT mean it is appropriate for use in an AIR-COOLED engine. You may be indeed using a TCW-3 oil with "no-problems" but I've been eating at Mickey D's for decades with "no problems" too. ;-) Any complications from using a TCW oil in air-cooled engines are likely to show up late in the product's life-cycle and be blamed on bad fuel, operator error, invading aliens, etc. or just be written off as normal wear & tear on an engine that's X years old.

    FACT: Air-cooled engines ARE designed with "looser" mechanical clearances than their water-cooled counterparts because of the greater operating temperatures they must withstand, not because they are "more demanding."

    FACT: TCW rated oils are NOT NECESSARILY designed to deal with the significantly greater temperatures found internally on air-cooled, high-RPM engines like the one found on the 044 or any modern chainsaw/trimmer/blower. Granddad's old Homelite Super XL (Blue Case of course!) was just fine running on 30wt non-detergent but adventures over 8K RPM were rare.

    BTW: This thread would be much more reader-friendly if y'all could combine multiple thoughts into one post. :smirk:
  16. rkshed

    rkshed Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    256
    Loc:
    Bedford NH
    I ran into guy cutting the same area I was and smelled a wicked familiar sweet smell. He was using Klotz too. Brings back memories...
  17. Bigg_Redd

    Bigg_Redd Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,718
    Loc:
    Shelton, WA
    Because they HAVE to say it. Here's some other questions: Is the 362 more powerful than the 361? Is it lighter? Is it more reliable? More durable? No, no, no, and, no. Then why did Stihl introduce it? Say it with me. . . REG-EWE-LAY-SHUNS! Because it's the best 60cc saw they could make that met some bullsh_t EPA standard written by some clueless bureaucrat. Everything in that manual is about limiting liability and keeping Uncle Sam's EPA off their back. If the manual said, "use any old oil you want" that would sortov defeat the purpose of the heavier, more expensive, low emissions saws, wouldn't it?
  18. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    How much you wanna bet that same line is in the MS361, MS440, 044, 034, hell even an 056 manual? (I would have to do some diggin' to get that 056 Manual out...)
  19. MofoG23

    MofoG23 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    339
    Loc:
    Western PA - Steeler Country!
    as someone posted earlier, the cost difference is next to nothing so I have been running the full synthetic stihl oil...still have a dozen bottles on the shelf. Well worth the extra couple bucks, especially when compared to the purchase price of the saw. :gulp:

    ...its a premium tool - treat it that way.
  20. MofoG23

    MofoG23 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    339
    Loc:
    Western PA - Steeler Country!

    not sure if we are trying to prevent a complete failure/lock up - I believe we are trying to extend the overall operating life before a rebuild is required.

    Anyways, can someone prove that synthetic stihl oil as being inferior or not worth the few extra cents?
  21. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    I have been running TCW oil in my saws for YEARS with no problem......ESPECIALLY since this ethanol chit gas came on the market. I am fully convinced that the ethanol destabilizes the synthetic oil and shortens the life of a piston and cylinder. However, I richen my oil/gas mix ratio so I am running more oil in the saw than is recommended. And I tune the saw to run that heavier mix. I have never ever had a mechanical failure do to the oil mix in my saws, EVER. And I cut a TON of wood year-round. Just my two cents, and I agree with Redd......that synthetic oil, combined with how LITTLE they recommend you run in the saw, is by design in the industry. It may help emissions, but it isn't helping your saw, UNLESS you are running AvGas in it...that is the only way I would use synthetic oil in ANY of my machines.....just my 2 pennies on the issue.....
  22. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    15,069
    Loc:
    Unity/Bangor, Maine
    Before he bought a four stroke Yamaha, my brother in law was running a Polaris two stroke sled that he said required a snythetic oil and he always bought the Polaris brand . . . I loved the smell of that two stroke . . . and I could often gauge how close or how far behind him I was in the woods by the smell since it had a distinctive bubblegum/cotton candy like odor. Breathing in bad pollution never smelled so good. ;)
  23. mecreature

    mecreature Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    782
    Loc:
    indiana
    I used Mercury Premium 2-Cycle TC-W3 Oil in a poulan 2150 for years. I ran it in everything 2 stroke. Its still runs.

    Now I run everything with stihl oil in my 280. thats the plan anyway.

    I might even put a little in my 1500 chevy for a pick me up.

    If I was you I would only run the FancyPants® MotoMix®.
  24. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    972
    Loc:
    Alaska
    sounds like im fine running the free outboard oil i got in my 044 as i have been running it in all my other 2 strokes then. wow this sure is a big debate.
  25. mecreature

    mecreature Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    782
    Loc:
    indiana
    click the image.
    get the manual and read it.. 044

    Attached Files:

    • 044.jpg
      044.jpg
      File size:
      545.9 KB
      Views:
      305

Share This Page