Federal Tax Credit Concern........Help~!

[Hiram Maxim]

Sorry if this has been discussed before...

So as I'm getting prepared to do some Taxes in the not so distant future I'm looking at energystar.gov and come across the frequently asked questions


Whats up with this?? Can I not install my own stove? :roll: Or is the "strongly recommended" just suggestive?



I’ve been told I can’t get a rebate for a cleaner-burning wood stove if I install the stove myself. Why can’t I install my own stove and save the installation expense?
EPA strongly recommends that a certified technician install your EPA-certified wood stove or fireplace insert to insure proper performance. First, the safety of your home and family depends on a full understanding of the manufacturer and building code requirements. Any errors in installation (by a non-professional) may not be visible, and problems may not be apparent for a considerable length of time — and some could result in a home fire.
Second, proper functioning of the venting system (a.k.a. the chimney) is the key to efficient, cleaner wood-burning. The venting system is the “engine” that drives the burning process; if it does not provide adequate draft, your stove will perform poorly or fail. A stove and venting system that is properly sized and installed will require less wood, produce more usable heat, and reduce maintenance from inefficient fires.

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=tax_credits.tx_index

Thank you,Hiram

 

[soupy1957]

sort of a Liability thing, I'm sure you realize. If you were the "government" responsible for disseminating money to folks for things, you'd place some criteria on that expenditure, so that you were not sending out money to some fella who puts a 55 gallon drum in the middle of his living room, and burns wood, and calls it a wood stove. (Nothing against those who have designed wood stoves with 55 gallon drums, because there ARE stoves like that out there..........just talking about open burning like the winos on street corners, kinda set ups).

I'd want to know that a "professional" who is licensed to do these types of installs, is willing to stand behind his/her work. If you YOURSELF are "Licensed" to do this sort of work, there is a "recusal" factor, like a Judge who has to remove himself from a case because he has a vested interest, or has some direct relationship to the litigants.

Just accept the fact that in this suit happy world, liability is a necessary consideration, and go with it.

-Soupy1957

 

[SolarAndWood]

Save the money unless you decide you don't want to do it yourself for some reason. In that case, the installation is deductible too.

It is unfortunate but the certified professional installation requirement for solar incentives has kept me from doing it so far. I'm glad it didn't apply to the stove.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I did the installation myself. Would a company install an Englander?

Matt

 

[DAKSY]

This one basically comes down to a moral (or ethical) issue & that's ONLY IF YOU GET AUDITED by the IRS.
Call your local stove shop & tell them the scope of work & get a quote on the installation cost.
Add that number (in $$$) to the price of materials required for a code conforming installation.
Do the math to get the 30% incentive figure & submit the form with the rest of your tax stuff.
Your call...

 

[oldspark]

This one basically comes down to a moral (or ethical) issue & that's ONLY IF YOU GET AUDITED by the IRS.
.
...

I do not think it is a requirement at all just a suggestion so not sure why you say its a moral issue.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yep. Just a suggestion, not a requirement. HPBA was involved a lot in getting the wording in that bill. Think I will call that the DAKSY clause. :lol:

 

[BrotherBart]

This one basically comes down to a moral (or ethical) issue & that's ONLY IF YOU GET AUDITED by the IRS.
Call your local stove shop & tell them the scope of work & get a quote on the installation cost.
Add that number (in $$$) to the price of materials required for a code conforming installation.
Do the math to get the 30% incentive figure & submit the form with the rest of your tax stuff.
Your call...

Doing that isn't a "moral" issue. It is tax fraud. Punishable by:

- Shall be imprisoned not more than 5 years
- Or fined not more than $250,000 for individuals ($500,000 for corporations)
- Or both, together with the costs of prosecution

 

[firefighterjake]

Another possible issue to consider is your insurance company . . . I was pleased to find out that my insurance company allows woodstoves with no increase in the premium . . . but they did stipulate that the stove be installed by a professional and that the fire department inspect it before use and send the report in to them.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Meh.

My stove manufacturer strongly recommended a pro install. My chimney manufacturer strongly recommended a pro install. My dealer strongly recommended a pro install (him, of course).

"EPA strongly recommends" is not a LAW, it's at best, guidance, given by another part of the overbearing nanny state .gov we are dealing with. I see nothing in that quote that tells me I can not claim my install on my taxes. (sorry for the slight political rant)

Besides, by the time stove, pipe, chimney and materials were figured in, I had the full rebate used up anyways.



From the FAQ's page 2:

http://tinyurl.com/22tatjb

Can I do the installation myself (for example, windows, insulation, or HVAC) and still get the tax credit?
Question


Can I do the install myself for the tax credit?
Answer


Yes, you can install the eligible product yourself, you are not required to have a particular contractor do the install.

Many of the energy efficiency tax credits allow the cost of installation/labor to be included in the eligible amount (view this FAQ for details). However, if you install the product on your own, you can not claim a labor charge for the installation. There is no basis for which to charge the government for your time.



Crapy copy and paste.. but there's your answer.



The weird linky there led to here:

http://tinyurl.com/33lkmo9


Are installation costs covered by the tax credits?
Answer


Installation costs ARE COVERED for:

* HVAC (Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning) systems
* Biomass Stoves
* Water Heaters (including solar)
* Solar Panels
* Geothermal Heat Pumps
* Wind Energy Systems
* Fuel Cells

The tax credit for HVAC, biomass stoves, and non-solar water heaters is 30% of the total cost (product + installation) up to $1,500. The law specifies installation costs include: "expenditures for labor costs properly allocable to the onsite preparation, assembly, or original installation of the property."

The tax credit for solar water heaters, solar panels, geothermal heat pumps, wind energy systems, and fuel cells* is 30% of the total cost (product + installation), with no upper limit. The law specifies installation costs include: "labor costs properly allocable to the onsite preparation, assembly, or original installation of the property and for piping or wiring to interconnect such property to the home."

Installation costs are NOT covered by the tax credit for:

* Windows
* Doors
* Insulation
* Roofs

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Save the money unless you decide you don't want to do it yourself for some reason. In that case, the installation is deductible too.

It is unfortunate but the certified professional installation requirement for solar incentives has kept me from doing it so far. I'm glad it didn't apply to the stove.

Based on what I just read in the FAQ, there is no certified professional installation requirement. It may be "recommended" but that is not "required".

 

[Jags]

"Strongly Recommend" and "Thou Shall" are two different things. Take that for what its worth.

(A tax credit - thats what. :lol: )

 

[firefighterjake]

"Strongly Recommend" and "Thou Shall" are two different things. Take that for what its worth.

(A tax credit - thats what. :lol: )

Oh yes . . . that little word "shall" . . . when you see this in codes it is like the word of God has been spoken . . . as mentioned very different from "recommended".

 

[CJRages]

This one has me intrigued. I know quite a few folks say that the chimney etc are part of the eligible tax credit base. Energy star doesn't agree.

Another FAQ from the EnergyStar Site:

Which components associated with my product are also eligible for the tax credit?
Question "I’m buying a new product that qualifies for the tax credit. How do I know which components associated with it are also eligible for the credit? For example, for a qualified roof, would the nuts & bolts, and gutter be included? For a biomass stove, would the hearth, stovepipe, and chimney be included?"

Answer
IRS has not issued specific written guidance on this question.

The rule of thumb that has become informal IRS guidance is that if the component is a critical piece of the product's energy efficiency then it is covered, but if it’s the same component that you would use on a non-qualified product (a regular roof), then it would not be covered.

The following products are probably not covered by the tax credit:

* nuts & bolts, and gutter for a new roof
* hearth, stovepipe or chimney for a biomass stove
* new ducts for an air conditioner or furnace

You can also contact the IRS directly: www.irs.gov/contact

 

[Jags]

Wut?

First this: (bold by Jags)

Second, proper functioning of the venting system (a.k.a. the chimney) is the key to efficient, cleaner wood-burning. The venting system is the “engine” that drives the burning process; if it does not provide adequate draft, your stove will perform poorly or fail. A stove and venting system that is properly sized and installed will require less wood, produce more usable heat, and reduce maintenance from inefficient fires.

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=tax_credits.tx_index

Then this:

The rule of thumb that has become informal IRS guidance is that if the component is a critical piece of the product's energy efficiency then it is covered,

Then this:

The following products are probably not covered by the tax credit:

* nuts & bolts, and gutter for a new roof
* hearth, stovepipe or chimney for a biomass stove

LUCEEE---You got some 'splaining to do.

 

[CJRages]

LoL... I love it. Some of the government's best work. :lol:

 

[Jags]

LoL... I love it. Some of the government's best work. :lol:

Tax code that is written with "probably", "suggest", "recommend" and "should", will be subject to interpretation. But when it down right contradicts itself---All bets are off. :grrr:

 

[goldfishcastle]

We do most projects ourselves - but left stove install up to the pros. Our house insurance does not change with a wood stove IF its professionally installed. If we had installed it would have gone up enough to cover the installation charge in 3 years. Also the credit can also be applied to installation. And it sure was fun to not have to do anything for a change - especially once they discovered a grid of studs in the ceiling (we didn't know due to all the attic insulation).

Have you had the install priced out?

 

[Hiram Maxim]

We do most projects ourselves - but left stove install up to the pros. Our house insurance does not change with a wood stove IF its professionally installed. If we had installed it would have gone up enough to cover the installation charge in 3 years. Also the credit can also be applied to installation. And it sure was fun to not have to do anything for a change - especially once they discovered a grid of studs in the ceiling (we didn't know due to all the attic insulation).

Have you had the install priced out?

My insurance will not go up either way. (State Farm)

I put a ton of insulation in the attic & walls, new insulated front door, and bought a new BK stove.

I'm a DIY and will have already reached my $1500 tax credit once I purchase my double wall pipe/ceiling support/chimney ect. so there is no sense in getting a professional install.

My ceiling is 16" on center with .750" of cement, .750" of plaster, and .625" drywall.
Went into the attic before the blow in to make sure the stove pipe would be between the the trusses. that way I could center the hearth that I built. so there should be no surprises.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Thanks to Everyone......that's a load of my mind.

 

[DAKSY]

This one basically comes down to a moral (or ethical) issue & that's ONLY IF YOU GET AUDITED by the IRS.
Call your local stove shop & tell them the scope of work & get a quote on the installation cost.
Add that number (in $$$) to the price of materials required for a code conforming installation.
Do the math to get the 30% incentive figure & submit the form with the rest of your tax stuff.
Your call...

Doing that isn't a "moral" issue. It is tax fraud. Punishable by:

- Shall be imprisoned not more than 5 years
- Or fined not more than $250,000 for individuals ($500,000 for corporations)
- Or both, together with the costs of prosecution

Ok. I shoulda said,
"Morally, ethically AND LEGALLY it's wrong to commit tax fraud."
But again, the first two apply until the "Perp" gets audited.
Then it's legally wrong if the IRS can prove they were defrauded.
If he doesn't get caught, & he starts feeling bad about not giving the
US Gummint some of his hard-earned paycheck, he can always take the
"Higher Power" route & go to confession.