Feeling my way with the F3 cb...

[FionaD]

Hi,

I'm a stove newbie, with about 10 days worth of 'experience' so far. I am loving my stove and have learned so much from this forum, which I am devouring faster than my stove devours logs!

I feel I need to understand more about burn times generally and am hoping some fellow f3 folk or indeed anyone at all may be able to help out...

CIGAR BURNING LOGS
So, my understanding so far of how to achieve this is that, at the very end of a burn cycle, I rake all the last of the embers to the front of the stove, then put on a full load, with a smaller split at the front, partially sitting on the embers (I am loading the logs EW). My understanding is that this will give a longer, more gradual burn by progressively burning the logs from front to back...

I am running the 'cigar cycle' much the same as I have been running cycles generally: add more logs, fully open top draft (I forget if that one is called secondary or primary then, once the stove top hits around 450 deg, I begin to turn down in a couple of stages. There's usually a wind round these parts, so i am usually able to shut right down 100% and get around an hour of secondary burn. The stove continues to heart up from quite a while after I've shut down, it usually rises to around 550 or so before it's begins it's descent.... Once there has been nothing but coals for quite a while and they start to look pretty dull, I get the sense I should open up the draft again just a very little, literally a touch above 100% closed - and then keeps them giving heat for longer without going out....

But.... So far, I cannot see that I am getting a longer burn by raking the coals forward, etc. the longest burn cycle I have ever got with this stove is 2 1/2 hours. What could I be doing wrong? I wonder if it may be related to the log length? The ones I have at the moment are around 12" long, so the flames do creep around the side, thereby igniting the rear logs quite quickly - in fact they are flaming well before the temp hits 400-450 and I start to turn the draft down.... Could log length be the problem?

My assumption that I could be getting longer burn times out of the stove is based on what others have said here and there on this forum... Which leads me to my second question...

OVERNIGHT BURNS?...HOW ON EARTH??
It would seem that quite a few folk here manage them on their F3s... I cannot begin to imagine how.... I am not really looking to get overnight burns - don't think there will be many times I will need them, but what I had been hoping was that the stove would hold enough heat to keep the room it's is just a little warmer overnight.. I go to bed on average around 10.30, leaving a pretty low bed of coals... stove is probably around 250-300 then... When I get up the next morning between 6.30-7.00 not only the stove is stone cold, so is the actual grate. Perhaps I have unrealistic expectations about the length of time cast iron can hold heat? I had, I must admit, expected the stove to still be slightly warm the next morning....

Anyway, this is where I am now with life as a 'Yodeller'... sorry… Couldn't resist... I'm sure I'm not the first...

Can anyone offer any thoughts about cigars, overnighters and burn times generally with the Jotul f3cb?

I'm really enjoying all your company, by the way... What a lovely bunch of folk in this forum!

 

[Jags]

I go to bed on average around 10.30, leaving a pretty low bed of coals... stove is probably around 250-300 then..

Not sure I am reading this correctly. Are you saying that you only have coals in the stove before you go to bed? If so - there is part of your problem. Most folks try to time the overnight reload so that a fresh batch of wood goes in - gets charred and then tuned down for the cruise.

Please correct me if I am reading this wrong.

 

[FionaD]

Not sure I am reading this correctly. Are you saying that you only have coals in the stove before you go to bed? If so - there is part of your problem. Most folks try to time the overnight reload so that a fresh batch of wood goes in - gets charred and then tuned down for the cruise.

Please correct me if I am reading this wrong.

Hi Jags,

You're reading it right, but I didn't communicate it very clearly.. I meant to communicate that I haven't attempted an overnight burn because it seems clear to me that there wouldn't be a hope of succeeding if the best burn times I can get when I'm awake are less than three hours... But what I am surprised at, after saying goodnight to a few red coals, is that the stove is cold as a stone in the Morning.. I had hoped for a little residual warmth.

Hope that makes better sense - I guess the only way I'll know about whether or not I'll manage an overnight burn is to try, but given all I've said I can't see the point. I was hoping there might be some tips out there that I'm missing to lengthen burn times generally without smouldering and creosoting... It seems some other folk get way longer.

 

[Jags]

Reality is that you are dealing with a very small stove. It is pretty common acceptance that anything less than 2 cuft and overnight burns are probably a pipe dream.

 

[FionaD]

I was happy with that... And expected no more, till I read about all the F3cb overnight burn on this forum, then envy curiosity set in

The stove is just right for our wee cottage... Any more and we'd be over cooked. And I don't mean to sound discontent with it at all.. I'm not.. Just want to get all I can out of it and there seem to be folk here who get more out of it than I am able to...

 

[BrotherBart]

I sure have never been able to get overnight burns out of the F3cb. Three or four hour burn and lingering heat for another hour or so.

 

[Jags]

Hmmmm....have you ever tried any of those bio-bricks? I wonder how your stove would react. It could be a good option for packing the stove up for the night.

 

[FionaD]

I sure have never been able to get overnight burns out of the F3cb. Three or four hour burn and lingering heat for another hour or so.

There you go - that's what I mean... That's still way longer than me... I'm including the lingering phase in my 2 1/2 hour cycle.

 

[FionaD]

Hmmmm....have you ever tried any of those bio-bricks? I wonder how your stove would react. It could be a good option for packing the stove up for the night.

You read my mind.. That's my latest thought... Only thing is I do not want more heat and I've been afraid they will cook us alive... I plan to give them a try though, once Scotland opens again after the new year.

 

[Jags]

Just throwing ideas. Not all bricks are created equal, as well. You may want to experiment with a couple of different brands (if you have that option).
One of our fine Mods (Begreen) did some fairly extensive testing on them. You might want to do a search and see if that helps you any.

 

[BrotherBart]

In a small space and wanting heat as long as possible I would feed it a small split or two along in the evening building a stove full of coals. Then shut it down at bedtime just filled with hot coals. Most of the creosote making stuff is gone by the coal stage and they should keep the lil dude putting out heat for a long time.

 

[FionaD]

Just throwing ideas. Not all bricks are created equal, as well. You may want to experiment with a couple of different brands (if you have that option).
One of our fine Mods (Begreen) did some fairly extensive testing on them. You might want to do a search and see if that helps you any.

I will do that.. Thanks

In a small space and wanting heat as long as possible I would feed it a small split or two along in the evening building a lstove full of coals. Then shut it down at bedtime just filled with hot coals. Most of the creosote making stuff is gone by the coal stage and they should keep the lil dude putting out heat for a long time.

That's good to know... I had taken it from other posts around the forum that adding small amounts of wood at a time was not good and that cycling was the only way...

Hello to you too, Bother Bart.... In only realised after replying to you last time that you weren't Jags!

I still want to know how you get four hour and more cycles though ...

 

[BrotherBart]

I just pull the coals forward, stack it to the baffle behind them and run it with the air wide open until a good fire is established and close it down to 1/4 open. But that is burning three year dried red or white oak. Most other woods will give shorter burn times.

 

[FionaD]

Maybe it's the wood I have just now.. I think I have a lot of birch.. A little oak and some beech. The splits aren't that thick either; maybe around 4" at the very widest part of the very biggest splits. But then the stove wouldn't take much bigger.

I have learnt so much form here.. And it was actually your description of the cigar burn in an old thread from way back that got me an extra hour out of my cycles.. Thanks so much for that. Do you think I would get a little longer out of a cigar burn if my logs were 14/15 inches rather than 12?

 

[begreen]

The F3CB will never achieve a good cigar burn. That is peculiar to N/S loaders and especially in box stoves like the F602 or F118. I too only got 3-5 hr burns with the F3CB burning softwood. It did a bit better with hardwood, but in 2 seasons I only got a couple overnight burns. There's too little fuel in there to burn a long time.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

as I mentioned last year ,I found the canawick brick made a huge difference in a f100. 6-8 bricks with two heavy pallet pcs, let it rip for about 10 min. then I shut the air completely the stoves cruises to about 450-475,then gradual cool down to 250-275.plenty of residual brick coals to re-fire. same thing everynite 8pm to 4am. real cold nites reload with splits around 2am leak stop.i may have just the right leaking gasket but that is how I got decent warmth from a real small stove. good luck.

 

[FionaD]

A very happy new year to all of you!

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I think I will just have to stop feeling like I've failed because I can't get overnight burns on the F3 when some people say they are able to burn theirs 24/7 It's good to hear that some of you have said that you can't either... And I take on board that the kind of wood we burn will play some part in that.

I managed to get a wee pack of our UK equivalent of the Canawick bricks from a local store yesterday, just to try them. Wow! I put five in the stove and, if I hadn't opened the door to cool thing down I think I might have melted the stove! I won't do that many again... They sure behave differently from logs! I will test them further.

On another 'questioning newbie' note... I am also wondering about the ash pan debate that crops up here and there on the forum... To empty or no not to empty. Mine is now full to overflowing, but not yet full enough to be reaching the level of the grate. I think I'm the kind of person who would find emptying using the pan favourable, but I would let the ash there build up to grate level and shovel out the grate if it really did slow down the log burn a tad, but not so much as to negatively effect secondary burn and therefore creosote production.. Slower burns would be my only reason to choose the ignore-the-ashpan option. Opinions here seem to vary, possibly depending on the make of stove .. Do F3 people find that the ashpan-full model saves a little on logs or not? It might be because I'm still thinking like an open fire person, but looking at the grate on the f3 cb, it looks pretty much like an open fire grate to me, I can't help but think it must speed up the burn to some degree.... And at the moment I seem to be burning logs at the same rate as I did on the open fire we had before the stove was installed two weeks ago.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

A very happy new year to all of you!

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I think I will just have to stop feeling like I've failed because I can't get overnight burns on the F3 when some people say they are able to burn theirs 24/7 It's good to hear that some of you have said that you can't either... And I take on board that the kind of wood we burn will play some part in that.

I managed to get a wee pack of our UK equivalent of the Canawick bricks from a local store yesterday, just to try them. Wow! I put five in the stove and, if I hadn't opened the door to cool thing down I think I might have melted the stove! I won't do that many again... They sure behave differently from logs! I will test them further.

On another 'questioning newbie' note... I am also wondering about the ash pan debate that crops up here and there on the forum... To empty or no not to empty. Mine is now full to overflowing, but not yet full enough to be reaching the level of the grate. I think I'm the kind of person who would find emptying using the pan favourable, but I would let the ash there build up to grate level and shovel out the grate if it really did slow down the log burn a tad, but not so much as to negatively effect secondary burn and therefore creosote production.. Slower burns would be my only reason to choose the ignore-the-ashpan option. Opinions here seem to vary, possibly depending on the make of stove .. Do F3 people find that the ashpan-full model saves a little on logs or not? It might be because I'm still thinking like an open fire person, but looking at the grate on the f3 cb, it looks pretty much like an open fire grate to me, I can't help but think it must speed up the burn to some degree.... And at the moment I seem to be burning logs at the same rate as I did on the open fire we had before the stove was installed two weeks ago.

with the brick, strong 5-10 minute burn and shut the air off. I get a slow nice secondary on top. almost blue gas like. the force, fionad, the force, believe in it.

 

[tsquini]

I have to build up a big bed of coals. About 45 min before I head off to my nightly slumber I add in 2 medium size splits. Let them char a little and shut down the air. The stove is running about 450 - 500 at that point. The house is about 75.

When I wake up around 6:00 the stove is warm. There are still a small amount of coals in the bottom of the stove I can rake forward to start the fire in the morning. The house is around 65.

That is what I consider an overnight burn. I don't have to restart a cold stove with paper and kindling.

 

[glennm]

I don't try for overnight burns in mine since we use it to warm up the family room. I have the Montpellier for overnight. I love the ash pan, but if I wanted to have coals in the morning I'm sure having a bed of ash would really help. In the shoulder season I can rake the coals into the centre of the Monty and cover them with ash. Next morning I move the ash to the side and have plenty of coals to start a fire.

If I wanted to try 24/7 with the F3 I would let the ash build up, burn wood in the evening refilling more frequently to build up a good layer of coals, load it up at bed time with good dry hardwood, close the drafts all the way and I'm fairly certain that would work.

 

[FionaD]

I too only got 3-5 hr burns with the F3CB burning softwood. It did a bit better with hardwood.

Even those soft wood burn times are way more than I've got to date with hard wood... I was just starting to feel like an üntermensch again..... .....BUT !.... (Drum roll)....something has shifted today.... It may be a combination of three things -

1 - that the ash has now started to build up till it gets to grate height and possibly slowing down my burn times a tad.
2 - there have been gale force winds here almost the whole time since my stove first got broken in.. I think maybe there was an unusually strong draft feeding the stove and devouring the wood? Today there is just a breeze and the difference in how the logs are burning is marked. I've filled the stove twice in the last 11 hours... Which is miraculous compared to previous days!
3- I'm enjoying playing around and experimenting and learning organically and intuitively (I guess that's 'The Force' ! ) as well as getting wonderful guidance from all of you. I think I am starting to 'feel the force' that lives in my stove and go with it in a gut way.msorry if that sounds a bit too way out.. But I think you'll know what I mean.... Seems to me that getting to know a stove is like a relationship with any person, 'self-help manuals' won't take you very far, really, you just have to learn how to trust your inner radar.

Today has been a breakthrough... Amazing! Yeehaw!

 

[FionaD]

Hello all,

It's been a while... I've just started to visit the forum again recently, as it gets to that 'stove time' of the year.

I revived this thread just because I wanted to update those of you who had been supportive of me last winter, as I struggled with what turned out to be a really bad stove installation... For any who are interested in reading some of the story, see also my other posts, here - https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/hello-and-dollar-bill-test-on-f3cb.120181/#post-1612157 and here - https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-log-burns-in-high-winds.121995/#post-1634926

The whole thing turned out to be even worse than I realised when I first posted here and was grasping around trying to find the cause of the many problems I was experiencing, all mixed in with the fact I was a complete newbie and couldn't always be certain whether it was lack of experience on my part or something else that was the root of the problem.

I had many concerns back in December and January, but only discovered another problem a couple of months ago and it was this one that had been the hitherto unknown cause of fast burn rates....

So, my stove has a rear flue.. And it turns out that where the flue connector enters the rear of the stove was not sealed... In fact, since day one there has been a gap of a whopping 1/4 inch all round, between the flue connector and the edge of the stove!

This only became visible when the baffle plates were removed so the flue could be swept. The guy who swept the flue also checked the whole installation and listed several other issues. The short version of what followed is that the original installers were eventually threatened by HETAS (the UK organisation who watchdog stove installations). They sent someone round who fixed everything on the list, including sealing off the joint between stove and flue.

.... And I cannot believe the difference in performance! All my concerns of last winter are gone- right down to what I felt in my gut were too short burn times... Now, if I load up the stove for the last time around 8.30 - 9 pm, I rise around 7 to a warm stove with enough glowing coals under the ash to rekindle the fire with just a few small sticks before I throw on the first logs of the day. In other words, my stove is now doing what even a total newbie, I felt it should... It's got burn times of 4 hours with no problem - sometimes much longer and is holding in the heat overnight.

Even though I knew nothing about stoves last year, when my wee jotul was installed, something in me knew it wasn't
right... Now - almost a year down the line, it seems I have a set up that is sound and supports the operation of this lovely wee stove that is just perfect for my cottage.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know the happy end to this story..and to thank you once again for all,your advice last year.

It's good to be back in the forum... Maybe as I get a little more experience I'll start to feel confident enough to reply to other people's posts and questions... For now I remain a humble apprentice entering her second year, but I do hope that if anyone else encounters problems similar to my own that some solution might be found here.

 

[fatwood]

i know this is a really old post, but I just wanted to say, with my f3, it burns insanely hot when ash pan is empty, I have to let it fill back up for overnight coals. It will hold coals easily for 12 hrs just to restart with, but I definitely have to leave the air open a touch more when the ash pan and base of stove are somewhat full. I like the super hot fires when it's cold, but its so nice to have the coalbed ready to go in the morning by leaving the ashpan full!. Such a catch 22. I'm sure this is old news, but what the hell, I'm new to writing on this forum. Its the best info out there for anything woodstove related!! Just wanted to share my experience with this model. I'm sure you have mastered yours by now! Happy burning!

 

[fatwood]

This is in reply to Fiona D.

 

[FionaD]

Hi fatwood,thanks for sharing your experience of the f3.

I am still very much in a pretty steep learning curve.. largely becase it felt like a new stove all over again after all the installation issues of late 2013 were finally all fixed just a few months ago. Then, to compound matters, I got a stack of oak, a lot of which was too high MC and had trouble for a while before I realised it was the wood and not the stove (thanks to help from folks here) .. More recently I have been trying to burn splits that are just too thick - boy, this stove didn't like them!.. So I am still very much still feeling my way 13 months later!

What I do notice with this stove is that, after reloading, I really do need to take the stove top temp up to 550 minimum, or even 600 (unless it's very windy out) before staring to close down the air, in order to get an even burn on both sides of the stove. If I shut down too soon, the burn seems to die on the rear left side of the box, but have vigorous secondaries on the right. Odd. Because of this I am finding that I need that extra heat I get by not having a full ash pan.

Consequently, I rarely see slow, rolling type secondaries, rather they always seems to be the full on flames from the tubes.. I wish I could get a lazy rolling fire...more relaxing to look at and better on the days I don't need a lot of heat.... so that's my trade off I guess...

Aye...still learning!