Eric, I agree this is how I have been running with no storage I may have idle time but I feel I make up for it in the almost instantaneous gasification when I reload on a nice bed of coals, warm boiler 170+ and hot refractory in the burn chamber. Maybe I'm silly but I'm happier than a pig in, well you know what I mean (without storage) because I'm getting instant gasification and yes gratification as well.
Fine tuning EKO
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Hansson
Feeling the Heat
The Orlan 40 one guy in Sweden order from kottly.com have the primary air intake in the lower part of the fireroom.
Not in the top like the old one.The max temp in the controll are 97C
Just a note
http://www.perhot.eu/bilder/
Not in the top like the old one.The max temp in the controll are 97C
Just a note
http://www.perhot.eu/bilder/
Do the eko or any other gassy boilers do well on standby? If you load it up in the morning and there is little to no demand all day will is stay lit?
My EKO40 Runs different lengths of time depending on wood used and seasonal load. With pine I get 4-6 hours with oak 8-12 hours and I've never had pine last any longer but I have had hard woods last 13-14 hours in warm weather (I use my boiler to heat my homes hot water). People with boiler hot water storage tanks usually have shorter length full throttle fires but then storage takes over when the fire goes out. Some people can go up to 24 hours per fire/burn some a little longer some less. Depending on the size of your boiler storage tank it can take a load and a half just to get it up to heat levels where it will carry on for you. Some people do not need a full load of wood to burn to get their storage up to temps. I am on my third season without storage and average about 9.5 hour burn times. At around 20*f half of that time +/- is in stand by or idle and it stays lit until it is out of fuel.
Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
I'm not sure about the other brands, but the EKO keeps the fire alive during idle by periodically turning the blower on to keep the bed of coals alive. IME, the boiler idles just fine. You get a little bit of smoke during idle and less efficiency, but the fire stays lit.
BTW, you learn pretty quickly how to load it depending on conditions, which keeps idling to a minimum.
BTW, you learn pretty quickly how to load it depending on conditions, which keeps idling to a minimum.
barnartist
Minister of Fire
You can run your EKO like any other traditional outdoor wood stove. It will heat, but you don't get the full potential of the boiler, and lots more creasote, ash, etc.
Ive gotten to a portion of my wood pile that is all hardwoods. Oak, red oak, and cherry. I think I need to adjust the air settings for this because it has behaved a bit differently. What is the thinking on this-more air or less? Maybe some of it is due to a bed of dead ash in the upper chamber I need to clean out too. I figure some of you have the air setting down pretty good by now.
Ive gotten to a portion of my wood pile that is all hardwoods. Oak, red oak, and cherry. I think I need to adjust the air settings for this because it has behaved a bit differently. What is the thinking on this-more air or less? Maybe some of it is due to a bed of dead ash in the upper chamber I need to clean out too. I figure some of you have the air setting down pretty good by now.
Eric Johnson said:
Eric,
I don't think it is much less efficient using the timer to shut the fans down. If I look at the amount of wood/coals in there when the timer stops and compare it to when I load up hours later, there is very little change. And, I have the aquastat that runs the pumps when the boiler is off set for 185 on top of the boiler jacket. This helps keep the coals and the internals of the boiler relatively hot. After adding wood I have gassification well inside of one minute. I let the fan shutters open a bit more than normal for about 10 minutes to get the bottom really hot, then close them down for the rest of the burn cycle.
Considering the difficulty I have starting a fire from scratch, and the inherent smoke in the face I get trying to load it after starting a small fire, this solution is perfect for me. The coals are hot when I add wood, but not so much that they start to burn instantly when I add wood, so I don't get much smoke at all while loading.
I guess I'd have to say that even if I was losing a bit of efficiency, there are just too many positives to make up for it.
barnartist said:
Cherry, bl. walnut and elm are fairly close in weight and btu per cord output according to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm. But I find my primary settings for the elm (probably red elm) if it hasn't gotten too old (not too aged/seasoned but starting near old-hard but pith-y) could be backed down in 20*+ weather because it coals really well. That is pretty true for red oak as well but I also find in colder weather I feel I need to bump up the primary air because the coal bed is so thick that it seems to obstruct the flow (I am only talking going from 6mm to 7mm here) but what find that actually works best is just adding or reducing to the blower setting. Cherry and walnut don't burn as completely as the elm or oak and I get coals that fall through the nozzle where with the elm I seldom find anything but ash residue. The oak seems to burn completely no matter which of the two primary settings I use and I would probably have to set and watch and time to see if there is really a difference in idle time (not gonna happen) The elm and the oak both give me longer run times. Pine though is a whole different ball park.
There is so many good things here to take in at once. I fired my 40 up for the first time on Sunday and so far I seem to be burining 12 hrs with only supplying the 500 gal. tank which is uninsulated and in the shed with the boiler. I will be putting the insulation in place once I know things are functioning properly. I currently am set at 10mm on the primaries, 3.5 turns on the secondary and about 75% open on the fan. I will be reducing the fan speed to 70% tonight to see how it runs. I'm headed home to use an IR temp gun to see what I have going in an out of my storage tank. Thanks for all the good info.
stee6043
Minister of Fire
Here is a crazy thought I'm not sure many folks have discussed: When reducing the fan output, if you have the new controller, why mess with the fan shutter?? I blindly tuned my EKO 40 with the shutter this winter until I received my first electric bill. The higher than normal bill was a kick in the head which resulted in my realization that I could run the fun shutter 100% open all the time and tune only with the fan speed setting on the controller (talking about fan output only, not the primary and secondary air openings).
When I cold-start my EKO I crank the fan to 100%. With the fan shutter open all the way I get nice quick fires. Once the flue temps get up there and my boiler temp hits 160-165 I run the fan speed down to 70% and let her ride. If I want to get a longer/cooler burn I'll run the fan speed all the way down to 50% or 60%.
I just thought I'd share that. I'm sure many people have realized this but I can't recall ever seeing it discussed. Slower fan speeds result in less power being consumed. More money in my pocket can't possibly be a bad thing...
When I cold-start my EKO I crank the fan to 100%. With the fan shutter open all the way I get nice quick fires. Once the flue temps get up there and my boiler temp hits 160-165 I run the fan speed down to 70% and let her ride. If I want to get a longer/cooler burn I'll run the fan speed all the way down to 50% or 60%.
I just thought I'd share that. I'm sure many people have realized this but I can't recall ever seeing it discussed. Slower fan speeds result in less power being consumed. More money in my pocket can't possibly be a bad thing...
Actually some are doing both the shutter and the speed and getting good results. Whether it is moisture content or type of wood or both and settings would take a lot of on-sight inspection by everyone to determine not to mention the list of other variables. But it's great when people relate what they have done/are doing as that actually helps everyone get the biggest bang for their buck.
barnartist
Minister of Fire
I have one of those "kill-a-watt" electric usage meters. I should check the fans. I didn't think those fans used much power, but I always wondersed if squeezing the air opening made the fans work harder. I should try to find out. What would 100watts 24 hours do to the elec bill? $5.00? If it turns out those fans do use some juice, add another reason to purchase the new controller for me.
stee6043
Minister of Fire
barnartist said:
I'm sure you're spot-on with your price. I doubt the fan actually costs "that much money" on a monthly basis. I just wanted to throw the idea out there. I'll take that $5 and buy myself a six pack of Milwaukees Best Light....or a 12 pack on sale....ha.
Cave2k said:
Cave-- Your tuning observations here have made an enormous difference for me. Thanks. I now run the fan at 50% with a wide open shutter during startup, cutting the fan shutter back by a third once I have a nice coal bed established. My primaries are just under 1/2 open, with the secondaries 2 turns open. Wood is well seasoned and dry. I have a blue flame that is nice and smooth (as compared with the ferocious yellow flame I had with the factory settings, which basically were "everything wide open.")
Question: I'm seeing some blacker ash in the secondary chamber these days, and sometimes when I open the secondary door to check things out, I see that the blue flame is more like a plasma that fills the upper part of the chamber and less like a flame focused out of the jet. I'm tempted to think that things are becoming too rich under these conditions - that the flame is searching for additional oxygen. Any sense of that? The color still seems right on, it's just the look of the thing (and the darker ash) that have me wondering.
Thanks for any assistance,
--Veg
VeggieFarmer,
Three basic things come to mind but they may only be one thing "air flow". Since your fan speed is cut down to 50% and your shutter is down to one third,but has been working, and you have a soft flame you either need a little more fan speed to produce more over all pressure or you need to check your heat tubes or primary chamber for obstructions. There is a possibility that you are experiencing ash blockage of the nozzle. At the heat generated by the hotter flame some woods can create clinkers kind of like coal or in corn burners. I like burning dry elm because of the long burn and the deep coals I get. But sometimes portions in the deep coals seem to solidify in to a hard residue (clinkers) that block the nozzle and also cause random ash buildup in the primary chamber. I have the 40 Super with the built in tube cleaner/turolators and cycle the handle every load but last summer I had a problem with flow from the nozzle and the soft flame and chimney smoke too. On inspection (shutting the boiler down and taking the tube cover off the top back of the boiler I found two of the turbolators had come off of the connector of the cleaning shaft and were stuck in the tubes (my unit idles a lot so I get creosote). I would have probably been okay if the blades had not come off). The turbolator blades are just clevis pinned in and the clevis pins are held in by small cotter pins and both were gone from the two stuck blades and a third was almost off as one leg of the cotter pin was missing and the pin was almost out. The soft flame says you need a little more pressure in the primary chamber and since it has been working well until recently I would bump up the fan to 60or 70% to see if that clears things up. If it still has trouble at those levels I would look for an obstruction in the tubes or in the primary chamber. If you have to look for an obstruction do not over look the secondary tube orientation. some secondary tubes are welded in some are not and the free ones move from thermal expansion and contraction and could be restricting secondary air flow. (EDIT) One other problem could be the back draft damper on the blower housing getting stuck closed???
Three basic things come to mind but they may only be one thing "air flow". Since your fan speed is cut down to 50% and your shutter is down to one third,but has been working, and you have a soft flame you either need a little more fan speed to produce more over all pressure or you need to check your heat tubes or primary chamber for obstructions. There is a possibility that you are experiencing ash blockage of the nozzle. At the heat generated by the hotter flame some woods can create clinkers kind of like coal or in corn burners. I like burning dry elm because of the long burn and the deep coals I get. But sometimes portions in the deep coals seem to solidify in to a hard residue (clinkers) that block the nozzle and also cause random ash buildup in the primary chamber. I have the 40 Super with the built in tube cleaner/turolators and cycle the handle every load but last summer I had a problem with flow from the nozzle and the soft flame and chimney smoke too. On inspection (shutting the boiler down and taking the tube cover off the top back of the boiler I found two of the turbolators had come off of the connector of the cleaning shaft and were stuck in the tubes (my unit idles a lot so I get creosote). I would have probably been okay if the blades had not come off). The turbolator blades are just clevis pinned in and the clevis pins are held in by small cotter pins and both were gone from the two stuck blades and a third was almost off as one leg of the cotter pin was missing and the pin was almost out. The soft flame says you need a little more pressure in the primary chamber and since it has been working well until recently I would bump up the fan to 60or 70% to see if that clears things up. If it still has trouble at those levels I would look for an obstruction in the tubes or in the primary chamber. If you have to look for an obstruction do not over look the secondary tube orientation. some secondary tubes are welded in some are not and the free ones move from thermal expansion and contraction and could be restricting secondary air flow. (EDIT) One other problem could be the back draft damper on the blower housing getting stuck closed???
Chris S
New Member
Perhaps I missed it, and this question was asked already.
Does the 2001 controller turn off the fan after the fire goes out?
Thanks, Chris
Does the 2001 controller turn off the fan after the fire goes out?
Thanks, Chris
taxidermist
Minister of Fire
mwk1000
Member
It has taken a couple of months but I am finally getting the hang of it with my EKO 60 and the ideas discussed here. I have for the first time ever seen my tank reach 179. That is wonderful since it gives me a full day in very cold weather. For a while I did not think my system was going to be able to heat the tank that high.
I have settled at 10mm on primary , 2 turns open on secondary. Set the fan shutter at 1/4 - 1/3 open and set the fan to 50%. I have been getting good temps at the boiler ( up to 195 ) even with my not very dry wood. I am burning ash that has been out in the snow all winter but that has been standing/laying dead for 2-3 years. I have been rationing the remainder of my good dry wood and filling the lower half with that and adding the ash after the boiler is over 175 under a steady load from the tank. A full chamber will last 6 hours and I add another half load after 3-4 hours in. That gets me about 9 hours to charge the tank.
This is creating a strong blue flame, more heat and longer burn times. I wasted a LOT of wood never getting above 165 with the fans wide open.
It has settled into a workable routine, start fire at 7pm, reload at 10pm and go to bed. Wake up in the morning and check the tank temp and make sure all worked well and I have enough to carry the day. The only thing driving me crazy now is why the fan 50% of the time is still running the next morning. Temp at 120 and the fan is on ? The other 50% I get the Fuel message.
I have settled at 10mm on primary , 2 turns open on secondary. Set the fan shutter at 1/4 - 1/3 open and set the fan to 50%. I have been getting good temps at the boiler ( up to 195 ) even with my not very dry wood. I am burning ash that has been out in the snow all winter but that has been standing/laying dead for 2-3 years. I have been rationing the remainder of my good dry wood and filling the lower half with that and adding the ash after the boiler is over 175 under a steady load from the tank. A full chamber will last 6 hours and I add another half load after 3-4 hours in. That gets me about 9 hours to charge the tank.
This is creating a strong blue flame, more heat and longer burn times. I wasted a LOT of wood never getting above 165 with the fans wide open.
It has settled into a workable routine, start fire at 7pm, reload at 10pm and go to bed. Wake up in the morning and check the tank temp and make sure all worked well and I have enough to carry the day. The only thing driving me crazy now is why the fan 50% of the time is still running the next morning. Temp at 120 and the fan is on ? The other 50% I get the Fuel message.
mwk1000,
I don't have the new controller and it sounds like you do. However there is supposed to be a setting that will allow you to control the fan via temp (?) when the boiler runs out of fuel. Otherwise the boiler does have a factory set time where the boiler will run then shut down if it has not been heating. That is usually when the low fuel light comes on. If the blower is still running it probably means the fuel lasted longer and has not hit the time limit yet.
I don't have the new controller and it sounds like you do. However there is supposed to be a setting that will allow you to control the fan via temp (?) when the boiler runs out of fuel. Otherwise the boiler does have a factory set time where the boiler will run then shut down if it has not been heating. That is usually when the low fuel light comes on. If the blower is still running it probably means the fuel lasted longer and has not hit the time limit yet.
Fred61
Minister of Fire
barnartist said:
Actually by closing the fan opening, the fan has less load. When you starve the rotor of air it actually speeds up. Think when you put the palm of your hand over the end of your shop vac, the motor speeds up because there is no air load on the vanes.
mwk1000
Member
I do. I will have to look. If something is set to 140 then wait x min after dropping below then it might explain it. I have the pump set to 160 since it is basically designed to run full out till it drops. Anything below 165 is not useful to me since the tank stops charging below that. I will be getting a differential set point controller for next season to allow me to get more out of the burn and loos less on the back end.
Hansson
Feeling the Heat
I have a HS Tarm solo plus 60 with a 1100 gal. accumulator tank and the most important factor in the gasification process is the o2 content of the wood. I have no problem running even in the summer for my domestic hot water. The tank has a domestic coil in the top and only have to burn 6-7 hr. every 10 to 12 days depending on demand. Your wood consumption should drop by 30% in the right operation. Good luck keep trying BR
I don't have a huge storage tank but it takes about 3-4 minutes to go from 170 - 175. I wish I had a bigger storage tank, it wouldn't be in standby most of the time.
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