Fireplace Insert Advice for Newbie (floorplan & pics incl.)

[serinat]

Hi! Happy Fourth of July! I've been learning a lot by lurking here. I hope you can help me.

My husband and I are buying a 1975 split entry (seven steps up to main floor, seven steps down to garden level). There is a fireplace on each level (they share a chimney). The garden (half buried walkout basement - doesn't "garden" sound nice?) level fireplace is in the walkout bedroom and is currently blocked off (but that can be remedied).

There are 1200+/- square feet on the main floor, and 600 finished square feet + tucked under garage on the garden level.

Insulation: Our home inspector said there's 9-10 inches of fiberglass insulation in the attic. We have no access to the walls, so we don't know how much is (or isn't) there, but we hope and assume there is some insulation there (esp. since the energy crisis was in 1974, a year before this home was built). I don't know if the bedrooms above the garage have an insulated floor, but if they do not, we plan to insulate there.

Windows: All original, save one replacement in the living room.

Current Heat: 10-year-old fuel oil furnace (ouch $$$), which we are thinking of replacing with a high efficiency propane furnace (a little less ouch $$). We are hoping to heat primarily with wood, as we have woods on our property, and make the furnace a backup.

Floor plan:

Upstairs fireplace (blame the previous owners for the black paint, added wood/wood product framing, and blue carpet):

Down the main floor hall (standing at the top of the landing):

Exterior picture:

Questions:

1.) Where would you recommend putting a wood stove/insert? Since the garden level fireplace is in a pretty enclosed space, I'm not sure the heat would spread upstairs very well. We will live primarily upstairs, so a fireplace insert in the upstairs living room might make sense. But then, will our basement be freezing?

2.) What type of wood stove/insert would you recommend? I'm very interested in soapstone, and since I stay home and homeschool the kids, the continual heat makes sense for us. Will a free standing stove in the middle of the house heat better? Our hearth is raised, so I don't think we can put a freestanding stove there. It would have to be an insert if we were to use the existing chimney. I'm interested in an insert if we won't lose all the heat to the outdoors or outdoor masonry.

3.) Can our house be heated primarily with wood? I know long houses are harder to heat this way. We're willing to try. Will the bedrooms be freezing? See the hall pick. The bedrooms are pretty isolated from the rest of the house.

4.) Any ideas for alternative backup heat? Anyone tried a Rinnai Direct Vent for whole house heating?

Thank you, thank you, thank you for any help you can give.

 

[fossil]

Welcome! I'm by no means a professional at any aspect of this, but I'll share some thoughts anyway, FWIW. You're facing a challenge, as we all do to some extent, because of the inherent characteristics of the house layout. My suspicion is that the area surrounding the downstairs fireplace was originally envisioned as a Family Room, then later carved up/finished the way it is now. I don't believe a solid fuel appliance of any kind is a good idea in a bedroom. In fact, it may be a code violation. So if you're intent is to continue to use that as a bedroom, then I'd suggest you leave that fireplace decommissioned and sealed up. Since you spend most of your time upstairs, that's the logical place for a woodburning appliance. Woodstoves, inserts, pellet stoves...they're all space heaters. Distributing the warm air from the room where the heater's located to distant rooms is a challenge. You could install any sort of stove you wanted in the Living Room, including a freestanding wood stove...just depends on how much remodeling you're willing to do. If you redesigned/extended your hearth, you could rebuild the hearth wall behind it, lose the wood mantle, and run stovepipe straight up inside the the room to the ceiling in front of the masonry chimney structure, and decommission/seal up the upstairs open fireplace as well. The possibilities are endless. Good luck, welcome again, and let us know what direction you're leaning. Rick

 

[karl]

I'll take a stab at it.

I would put the insert upstairs where you live most of the time. I have a ranch, which is long and supposedly tough to heat. My floor plan is pretty open so that helps. The ends of the house are a little colder but not much. I have a few column fans I use that really help.

Also, don't think of it as heating the whole house entirely with wood. I did that last year, which was my first year with an insert. You can do it, but it takes some work. Think of it as, I'm going to burn this thing, enjoy it, and put alot of heat into the house. Then run the furnace as you need to. You'll still save alot of money.

My gas bill for November to May last year was $86.00. That's not a month, that's the whole winter. This year my goal is to have the bill run under a $100.00 a month. That's still less than half of what it would be without the insert, maybe closer to a third. And I won't wake up to a cold house, like I did a few times last year.

 

[serinat]

Thanks for your thoughts, Rick and Karl.

Rebuilding the fireplace is an interesting idea, Rick. I'll have to think about that one. We big DIYers with a lot on our plate right now (have you *seen* that carpet? It stinks as bad as it looks!), so my husband might get some serious indigestion if I tell him we're going to rebuild the fireplace, too...

Any thoughts on which stove/insert?

Will my basement be cold and need space heating, if we put the wood stove in/near the upstairs hearth?

 

[fossil]

Will my basement be cold and need space heating, if we put the wood stove in/near the upstairs hearth?

Absent any other sort of forced air heating or something running, yes it will. A small electric space heater will keep a room comfortable. Rick

 

[begreen]

Welcome serinat. Thanks for the detailed information and layout. Upstairs looks like the only option. You can't put a wood stove in a bedroom.

What kind of fireplace is this? Is it a true masonry unit or a prefab? That will determine what the options are.

Soapstone stoves are very nice and would be fine. You can expect to heat the entire floor with one. It may take a fan at the end of the hallway, blowing towards the stove, to get heat circulating, but it can be done.

 

[serinat]

What kind of fireplace is this? Is it a true masonry unit or a prefab? That will determine what the options are.

The fireplace is a two-story masonry deal with a chimney. I think that's what you mean, correct? It's not a prefab fireplace stuck to the wall; the masonry extends to the outside and up to the roof.

Soapstone stoves are very nice and would be fine. You can expect to heat the entire floor with one. It may take a fan at the end of the hallway, blowing towards the stove, to get heat circulating, but it can be done.

Good to know. I think Hearthstone makes fireplace inserts, but they're not soapstone (at least on the exterior), correct? So, if I wanted a soapstone stove, I'd have to get a freestanding?

I'd love to be able to stick a dutch oven or teapot on a woodstove and get some minimal cooking heat from it. I don't think we can do that with an insert. But then, I like the idea of an insert using up space that's already there (pre-existing fireplace) without jutting out into the room too much.

 

[begreen]

I was thinking of the Hearthstone Homestead for your needs. It can be attractively installed right in front of the fireplace. The hearth will need to be extended but it sound like there will be no love lost if the black bricks go. Take a look at the photos for the Homestead.
http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/wood-stoves/stove-details?product_id=19

Another good stove might be the Woodstock Fireview. It is a different design, catalytic, but has received glowing praises from most owners.
http://www.woodstove.com/pages/wood_stoves.html

 

[serinat]

Thanks, BeGreen. I love the Hearthstone Homestead.

When we're speaking of "extending the hearth," do we really mean "rip out the whole fireplace and start over?" I honestly have no idea what extending the hearth would entail. Is there a way to renovate an existing hearth *easily*?

(Trust me, I'd love to rip out the whole deal. But again, see the above post on husband and indigestion...)

 

[burntime]

I have an exposed ranch about 1400 square feet upstairs where my insert is. Upstairs toasty. I have a fan blowing up the stairs and run the furnace fan. Basement will get 60 degrees. Can you zone your funace? If you can you would be set. Put an insert in the fireplace...there are many and it depends on how much you want to spend. Go for the biggest firebox you can with the look you want. I have a hampton, there are a lot of nice ones out there. It is confusing trying to read the output. It comes down to you will get so many btus out of a piece of wood. The larger firebox will let you get more btu...other than that it is quality and looks.

 

[serinat]

Oh, I just found this Craigslist post:

http://nmi.craigslist.org/for/714795794.html

It's a few hours away, but only $850! There must be something wrong with it. If not, is that a good deal? What are your thoughts on buying a used wood stove?

 

[fossil]

If you think it's the stove for you, and you like the look of it, and the seller will answer any questions you may have about it, and maybe send you some more detailed pictures of it, and you have the resources to go and get it (weighs in at nearly 400 lbs, I think), and you think the price is right, then go for it. Rick

 

[begreen]

Nice find. That's the model. Ask them if there is any sign of cracked stones. If not, it's a great deal.

 

[serinat]

Um, how would one transport a 400 lb. soapstone woodstove, without breakage or bottoming out? Will a pickup truck do that?

We only have a small Mazda car and a Toyota minivan. I suppose shipping it might be too expensive, eh?

Back to the subject in the OP: any other insert recommendations?

 

[begreen]

I suspect if you pull the middle seat out, the minivan would be fine. It can handle that weight and will be smoother riding than a truck. Lay down some cardboard and walk the stove in. Just don't stop real fast!

 

[fossil]

If you're seriously gonna consider doing that, check the owner's manual for the load capacity. If you take your own help along with you (it's gonna take 4 people to move that thing), then with the stove and the people in the van it just might be overloaded. Whatever you do, from purchase, transportation, installation, and operation...safety is the #1 priority with a woodstove. Rick

 

[serinat]

(Okay, check the original post for my floor plan.)

Now, if we were to convert that garden/lower level larger bedroom into a family room (which it seems it was intended to be) by moving the entrance to the right and enlarging it, could we conceivably stick a larger wood stove in/near that fireplace and heat the whole house? The scissor stair is right in front of that room, and the railing for the stair and the landing is a simple metal thing that will not block any heat.

Also convenient: that bedroom/family room-to-be has a walkout slider for convenient access to the yet-to-be-built woodshed.

Not convenient: we wouldn't be able to enjoy the fire upstairs, where we'll spend much of our day (homeschooling, meals).

Thoughts?

(Y'all are really helpful, by the way. I really appreciate the help.)

 

[begreen]

If the seller can offer to provide a little help then the trip home shouldn't take more than the stove with the driver. To make it easier to move around, rent or buy a 600# load hand truck. Ratchet strap the stove to a sheet of 3/4 plywood slightly larger than the perimeter of the legs and set under them as a base. Then you can slide it onto a hand truck, and ratchet strap it to the hand truck (be sure it is stout enough for the load). That's the way we move our 585# beast and it went pretty smoothly. To get it into the minivan, bring along a couple planks to make a ramp to roll it up into the van. Or just push it up the planks.

 

[fossil]

Almost seems like you've answered your own question. You spend your time upstairs. A woodstove or insert is a space heater. It requires some bit of tending. If you put it downstairs, then downstairs is gonna get toasty warm...but you're upstairs, and you just have to keep going downstairs to take care of keeping the downstairs toasty warm. Sure, some heat will find its way upstairs, but not to the extent that you can plan on that keeping you all warm up there. Rick

 

[begreen]

If you're a dead-set on installing the stove in the basement you will need to open up that wall (carefully with a stout header, the wall is probably load bearing). At that point you can put in a big stove and see how it works. But it may not be as efficient and I doubt you're going to find many Homesteads like the craigslist one.

 

[serinat]

Thank you, fossil and BeGreen. I already didn't want to put the stove downstairs, but I felt like the question needed to be asked, so I didn't wonder.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the Craigslist seller. I'll post more pics of the stove, if I can get him/her to email me some. What sort of questions should I ask? If any of the stones are cracked, it's just a cosmetic thing, right? I mean, I don't dig cracked soapstone, but if it will save me $1500, I can deal.

But then, if it is cracked, I'll wonder what sort of treatment it received.

 

[serinat]

Heard back from the Craigslist guy. Said nothing's wrong with the stove; wood jumped from $35 to $70 in his area (per what, I'm not sure), so he said it was cheaper to switch to propane. I asked for more details and pictures.

What types of questions should one ask when buying a used stove?

What kind of work with our fireplace/hearth need to fit a Hearthstone Homestead?

 

[begreen]

Definitely worth checking out. Here's a link to used stove buying.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Used_Stove_buying_Primer

From the side view, this looks like the freestanding model which has 6" legs. The hearth model is normally the one you want, it has shorter 4" legs, but don't despair. The 6" legs model 8570F can be installed in a fireplace as long as there is enough height for the flue pipe to clear the top edge of the fireplace. Download the manual from Hearthstone's website to familiarize yourself with the stove and how it is installed in a fireplace and for dimensions. Compare them with your fireplace opening size. The manual shows many different configurations.

http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/assets/files/document_library/Homestead8570Manual.pdf

 

[fossil]

Maybe you can buy a set of 4" legs for it? Rick

 

[serinat]

Still waiting on the pictures.

Is the inside of the Homestead firebrick, or soapstone? Should I be worried about cracks?

fossil - I'll have to look into that. I suppose the only thing to do is email Hearthstone?

The biggest worry is that I can't measure our fireplace until we move in next Friday.