Fireplace is finished, but still haven't chosen a stove

[bsruther]

I started tearing out my old fireplace at the beginning of November and started researching stoves about a month earlier. I finished up the fireplace last week and am moving on to finish the rest of the room.
A new stove isn't in our budget until early March, so I still have plenty of time to decide.

I gotta say that choosing a stove has been one of the toughest purchase decisions I've ever made.
The wife has pretty much left it up to me. She knows how much research I've done and she also knows I won't buy no ugly stove. I don't think that there are any steel stoves out there that I haven't looked at and there have been many at the top of the list.

At the moment, I have it narrowed down to 2 stoves, The ESW 30NC and the PE Summit. I gave strong consideration to the Osburn 2300. It seems like a well made stove and I really like the bypass feature, also, I think it's the best looking of the 3. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of these stoves in circulation and I couldn't find a lot of feedback for them. I'm sure Osburns are well made stoves, but if something goes wrong with my stove, I want to be able to easily find other examples of that problem and hopefully, solutions to them.

With the Summit and 30, I'm waffling back and forth on a daily basis. The price of the 30 and it's reputation is a big draw for me. I like having redundant backups and I could buy plenty of spare parts for most anything that might fail mid season and still be way ahead on money. The one downside I can see on the 30, is that it's more of a bare bones stove, compared to the Summit.

What I like about the Summit most is the access to the air inlets. I want to be able to completely shut down the air flow to my stove, in the event of an overfire. The stove will be stuffed into a 41"T X 35" W opening and from what I've read about the 30, I don't think I'll be able to access the air inlet (input on this would be great).
Another thing I like about the Summit is that it just seems like a more robust stove. I like the SS baffle a lot compared to the tubes and fiber boards of the 30, but I'm not sure whether a beefier stove is worth $1400 more, especially seeing that PE does have parts failures, although they seem to be rare.

Another deciding factor for me, is the location that the blower mounts to the stove. With the 30, having the blower mounted to the back of the stove will pose a problem, since I'll have to pull the stove to clean it.
On the Summit, it seems that the blower is on the bottom, although I haven't been able to confirm that it is.
Can anyone with a Summit tell me if that's where it's mounted and if it can be accessed for cleaning?

Any help making a decision on one of these stoves is appreciated.

Oh yeah, my house is a 1000 sq ft ranch, and I know this stove is overkill, but it's what I want.
I want as long of burns as I can get and figure a stove this size is the only way I'll get it.
If my Big Buck cruising with a STT of 600 doesn't run me out of the house, I doubt one of these stoves would.

 

[madison]

You can not "shut down" any of the new EPA stoves.

If you are considering wood stoves and not inserts. Which is not really stated except that you are planning on "stuffing" into the new fireplace. The fan on the summit wood stove screws onto the rear bottom of the stove.

Manuals - parts diagram down near the end of each manual
http://www.pacificenergy.net/support/support/archived-manuals/
.

 

[bsruther]

You can not "shut down" any of the new EPA stoves.

If you are considering wood stoves and not inserts. Which is not really stated except that you are planning on "stuffing" into the new fireplace. The fan on the summit wood stove screws onto the rear bottom of the stove.

Manuals - parts diagram down near the end of each manual
http://www.pacificenergy.net/support/support/archived-manuals/
.

I can't cover all of the air inlets and at least cut the air back dramatically?

 

[Fireshoppe]

The best solution for an over fire (not a chimney fire) aside from not allowing it to occur is to open the door to allow cooling room air to enter the stove in large quantities. The previous post is correct that you cannot 'shut down' an EPA NC stove.

Even if you managed to access the air inlets and plug them the secondaries are usually not regulated through the intakes and will continue to pull. And with little or no air allowed in the FB internal temps will continue to rise for some time. Also, in an over fire the flue temps will likely be so high that draft will be such the air control won't have the desired effect of slowing the fire.

So by opening the door 75 degree air will flood the firebox and flue lowering temps quickly from the 1800 degree plus temps of an over fire. Watch out for sparks and be prepared for them.

 

[southbalto]

I can't cover all of the air inlets and at least cut the air back dramatically?

Not on the new EPA stoves. What you can control, however, is where the air is injeted into the firebox. Typically at startup you'll have the damper wide open and air will enter through the holes in the baffle (tubes or board) up top as well as near the bottom of stove. Once the fire gets going you use the damper to reduce the air injected near the bottom. This increases the intensity of the secondary combustion which occurs near the baffle. You work the primary (bottom) air down in steps till it's only providing a small amount of combustion air. At that point, you should have really strong secondary combustion occuring up top. If things get out of control, I've heard that covering the main air inlet with foil or some other noncombustible material is an effective way of bringinig down the fire.

 

[madison]

I can't cover all of the air inlets and at least cut the air back dramatically?

chimney damper is another method to reduce draft into the wood stove.

are you considering a wood stove, or a wood insert?

 

[tcassavaugh]

The best solution for an over fire (not a chimney fire) aside from not allowing it to occur is to open the door to allow cooling room air to enter the stove in large quantities. The previous post is correct that you cannot 'shut down' an EPA NC stove.

i would have never have thought that. interesting and makes sense. I've always shut it down and closed the pipe damper. comes down pretty quickly. mostly happens when i walk away from the stove while waiting for it to start and forget to come back until i smell the pipe getting hot. try not to leave the stove any more, safer that way.

 

[bsruther]

chimney damper is another method to reduce draft into the wood stove.

are you considering a wood stove, or a wood insert?

Free standing wood stove, hence the NC30. Had to rebuild my old fireplace to be able to fit one. I didn't mind though, it was pretty ugly, in a '70s kind of way.

 

[tcassavaugh]

so i take it that the pic posted is the old fireplace? have a pic of the remodeled one?

 

[bsruther]

so i take it that the pic posted is the old fireplace? have a pic of the remodeled one?

I have 4 cords of wood just sitting here, so I put the old stove back in. I'd rather not show pics of that right now, the old stove kind of detracts from it.

Here's a pic of the mantel, I took the other day.

 

[SKIN052]

Free standing wood stove, hence the NC30. Had to rebuild my old fireplace to be able to fit one. I didn't mind though, it was pretty ugly, in a '70s kind of way.
View attachment 121744

Look at that poor wood just sitting there waiting to come in, lol.

 

[Hogwildz]

Look at that poor wood just sitting there waiting to come in, lol.

LOL, always on the outside looking in..... Prolly has a pouty face too LOL
So close, yet so far.

 

[Hogwildz]

No need to completely shut the air down on a modern stove. The amount of air it actually takes in when full closed is very, very minimal.

 

[bsruther]

Yeah, that wood's been sitting out there for about 2 months, mostly oak and ash. I put a big dent in it this past week though.

So, anyone with a freestanding Summit that can answer my question about being able to clean the blower when there's no access to the sides or rear of the stove?
What about the same for the 30NC?

 

[Hogwildz]

The 30's fan mounts at the back lower also.
Once it is buried in there, you ain't cleaning or swapping it out without pulling the stove out.
I think BB rigged his up so that it is near the front of the stove.

 

[Snotrocket]

You won't need the blower in the 30. I wouldn't even bother mounting it in a 1000 sq/ft house unless you plan on having the windows open 24/7.

 

[bsruther]

The so's fan mounts at the back lower also.
Once it is burried in there, you ain't cleaning or swapping it out without pulling the stove out.
I think BB rigged his up so that it is near the front of the stove.

That sounds like something that might work. Is the blower a flush mount or is there some kind of duct flange that sticks out to mount the blower on? Would be nice if I could maybe mount the blower where the ash pan goes, since I wouldn't be using an ash pan.

 

[bsruther]

You won't need the blower in the 30. I wouldn't even bother mounting it in a 1000 sq/ft house unless you plan on having the windows open 24/7.

I doubt that I'd be using the blower much, but it might be nice to have to get the house heated up quickly.

I have no problem opening windows, I do it now. That cool air feels so nice.

 

[BobUrban]

I modded my30 fan to hang lower and allow me to get the stove back a little further on my hearth so it would fit. The same type mod could be done to swing it bellow the stove but you will loose a little air flow the further you get it from the back of the stove and with any bends in the pipe. Not a huge concern but something to consider.

 

[bsruther]

Thanks for the pic Bob, that's excellent. What did you use for an elbow?

I'm not to concerned about air flow, I have my current stove turned down so low with a speed controller that I can hardly hear it.

Is that the AC16 blower that ESW is now shipping with the 30?

 

[Hogwildz]

You could even make an extended piping or duct from the back under the bottom to front and mount the blower on front or maybe side. The limits are endless, not sure about looks though. Maybe make a face plate to cover the blower front.

 

[SKIN052]

Yeah, that wood's been sitting out there for about 2 months, mostly oak and ash. I put a big dent in it this past week though.

So, anyone with a freestanding Summit that can answer my question about being able to clean the blower when there's no access to the sides or rear of the stove?
What about the same for the 30NC?

Summit mounts low on the back as well.

 

[tcassavaugh]

I have 4 cords of wood just sitting here, so I put the old stove back in. I'd rather not show pics of that right now, the old stove kind of detracts from it.

Here's a pic of the mantel, I took the other day.
View attachment 121749

nice work. cant wait to see it when you get the new stove in.

 

[Fireshoppe]

Englader is sold in farm stores around here. Is it sold in dealerships in the East.

PE makes a great stove that leads the way in technology. Your local dealer will be an invaluable resource for your questions about the Summit.

But you are correct, it is overkill for your home. Have you looked at the new Buck Stoves? They have front blower access and a 2.4 cu ft Model 81 will run circles around the Big Buck and last 30 plus years doing it. It has similar emisions and wood sizes as the Summit and is sized more closely for your home. I can reload mine at 8p and stir the coals at 7a and let er rip 20 mins, shut it down and let it heat all day while at work.

 

[bsruther]

Englader is sold in farm stores around here. Is it sold in dealerships in the East.

PE makes a great stove that leads the way in technology. Your local dealer will be an invaluable resource for your questions about the Summit.

But you are correct, it is overkill for your home. Have you looked at the new Buck Stoves? They have front blower access and a 2.4 cu ft Model 81 will run circles around the Big Buck and last 30 plus years doing it. It has similar emisions and wood sizes as the Summit and is sized more closely for your home. I can reload mine at 8p and stir the coals at 7a and let er rip 20 mins, shut it down and let it heat all day while at work.

The stove shop that is closest to me sells Buck, Lopi, Enviro and a few others. Bucks are and always have been well made stoves, but when I look inside of a Buck stove the tubes and baffle don't seem to be designed similar to the ESW stoves. I have a hard time justifying paying an extra $1000 just for the name on the stove.
You are correct in the sizing though, a 2.4 sq ft box would be closer to what I need. If I went any smaller than that, I may as well keep my old Buck, since I can get just as many hours of usable heat out of it as I could from a Buck 21 or an Englander 13NC. When dealing with warranty issues or ordering parts, can a stove owner deal directly with Buck or do they have to go through a dealer?

I've been to the the local PE dealer and they seem to be knowledgeable about their stoves. They had a Summit classic and a T5 on display and those stoves seemed to be of a higher caliber than most that we had looked at. I have also considered the Super 27, but not sure about how many hours of useful heat I'd get from one.