Fireview savings!

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dreezon

New Member
Aug 7, 2009
173
Peoria, IL
Well, we're MOST of the way through our first winter with the fireview, and we've been comparing last year's bills with this year's. Of course, the comparison isn't perfect because weather varies and I believe gas prices went down a bit this year, but here's how it breaks down so far:

Nov-Dec bill: $366 last year, $157 this year.
Dec-Jan bill: $465 last year, $230 this year.
Jan-Feb bill: $467 last year, $165.65 this year.

Total savings in three months: approximately $747.

Now some background information to factor in:
—Our house is an 80-year-old brick house with new windows but no insulation in the walls and not a lot in the attic.
—It is a 2-story house with a central chimney but not really an open floor plan, and the back and upstairs were pretty chilly at times
—We tried to minimize furnace usage but did turn it up a bit to knock of the chill in the morning. The highest we keep the stat is 65º, and it is in the same room as the stove (although I think it reads cold because it's on a basement adjoining wall)
—This being my first year, I didn't have as much wood as I would have liked, and what I did have was marginal in dryness—probably averaged in the upper 20s on moisture content, maybe higher
—On the other hand, most of my wood was high-density stuff—hickory, black locust, osage orange, mulberry, a bit of cherry and some oak.... oh, and some chinese elm and semi punky silver maple.
—On average, we didn't stay warmer this year than last (unless we were in the room with the stove), but we did save a lot of dough.
My wife is duly impressed.

I'm about out of the wood I was going to use this year, and I'm debating on whether to buy a 1-ton load, but first, I'd have to vet some of the guys who sell it around here.

I must say I am thrilled to hear about Woodstock's new, bigger stove and am already scheming how I can upgrade to it.
 
Thats great. This is also my first year and I can't wait to tally up the savings. I had mine put in in December so I only had one oil delivery. I should be getting another soon but my last one was 100gals less than last year.
 
How much wood did you burn and what did you pay for it?
 
Nice savings and I bet with dry wood next year you will do even better. What about taking some of those savings and insulating the brick walls?
 
That sounds great to me! Just wait until you get some better wood in there and have enough of it. If you really are burning wood in the high 20's for moisture content then you are robbing yourself of a lot of BTUs. I hope you have your fuel stacked for next year already.

As cycloxer implies with his question - the amount you paid for the wood you burned does need to be considered in your savings calculation to get the true picture.

As an example for the 08/09 season I paid too much for my wood (doesn't everyone in the first year if they buy it last minute?) and also burned a good bit of bio-bricks etc. Thus my stove fuel costs for that first season was rather high - about $922 as I figured it. Now that offset about 229 gallons of oil (but house was warmer...). Since oil prices fell and we averaged about $2/gallon for oil we actually paid more to burn the stove ($464 if you are counting) but such is life I suppose. Then again it was a colder winter and other factors could be argued (rationalized?)

This year, however we're doing much better (although perhaps I shouldn't count my chickens before they hatch...) - our Fireview burns less wood too :) - I haven't had an oil delivery since last May so I can't be sure how much we've burned for heat but I estimate it to be about 40 gallons which would mean that we've offset an additional 210 gallons of oil (about 440 gallons total offset by stove compared to oil only heating) and I expect to finish out the year burning slightly less fuel in the stove than we did last year to boot - about 3.8 cords vs 4. Average cost/cord for my fuel this year is about $120/cord so I expect to finish out the year costing less than $480 for the year. Oil is averaging over $2.50/gallon so I figure a net savings in fuel of over $620. Not the big bucks that some folks tout - I have heard in the thousands but I'm not in it for the money :)
 
Hey dreezon, keep on scheming. That new stove is starting to sound pretty good.

You no doubt will realize a bigger saving and a warmer house next year with dry wood.
 
As for wood consumption and costs, I need to recalculate it, but I believe I have used between 2 cords and 2.5 cords. It didn't cost me much because I harvested my own.

As soon as I even began considering the purchase of a stove, I went out and started harvesting as much as I could. I started in early July, and I got pretty lucky because a guy I know let me have almost two cords of small-diameter stuff he had taken down a year before and just stacked the trunks with his tractor. That's where the locust, osage, cherry and mulberry came from. After putting out a craigslist ad and talking to a few people in my area, I have determined there is no shortage of trees to get my hands on, and I'm fortunate to have a retired father with a full-size truck who doesn't mind helping me out.

I am excited to see how much better things go when I'm using properly seasoned wood next year.
 
As for insulating, I'm dying to do that because I believe my stove would then keep the entire house toasty even in very cold weather. I've seen it at my grandpa's house, and I don't think his stove is as efficient as mine.

BUT... I think the cost to insulate would be at least $4,000. I don't have that kind of money to spend again, and, unlike the stove, I think it would take quite a while for the investment to pay for itself. I am going to get some estimates from insulating contractors this year, but unless I get a promotion, I don't see us getting the insulation any time soon.
 
Dreezon,

I'd check on the price for insulating, the tax credit should apply and with building being so slow you should be able to get some really competitive numbers.

I would break the bid down into 4 "jobs": 1 Basement or Crawlspace, 2 Attic, 3 Sidewalls, Caulking and Air-sealing the whole house. Do what you can as you can afford it. I prefer spray foam when it's high cost can be justified over the long term, Cellulose in both dense pack and loose fill is usually the most cost effective. Glass is a last resort but is better than nothing.

Good job with the stove,

Garett
 
G-rott said:
Dreezon,

I'd check on the price for insulating, the tax credit should apply and with building being so slow you should be able to get some really competitive numbers.

I would break the bid down into 4 "jobs": 1 Basement or Crawlspace, 2 Attic, 3 Sidewalls, Caulking and Air-sealing the whole house. Do what you can as you can afford it. I prefer spray foam when it's high cost can be justified over the long term, Cellulose in both dense pack and loose fill is usually the most cost effective. Glass is a last resort but is better than nothing.

Good job with the stove,

Garett

Thanks for the advice. I really don't know enough about insulation.

Is it better to get the out here during the winter so they can spot leaks, etc, or does that make any difference?
 
Free wood is the best kind of wood. All it costs you is a bit of time and effort to get it ready to burn. Nice job!
 
Also check with your utility company and/or state. Many areas have programs available to subsidize energy improvements. If nothing else they may at least do an "energy audit" where they come out and help identify the best areas to get a return on your investment and help educate you on what is best. Around here this is paid for out of our utility bill (everyone pays but few know about it to take advantage of it...). It is worth asking - these programs come and go but if you happen to time it right you can potentially save a bundle.
 
Slow1 is right on with the advice about energy audits and grants. Many are available.

Are you a DIY type or not? If so much of the caulking and air sealing can be done with supplies from a local lumber yard or hardware.

I've spent too much time around insulation, if you have any questions feel free to ask here or MP me.

Garett

ps. you did ask a question and I didn't answer... a contractor can come out any time, for energy audits with an infrared camera the larger the temperature differential the better. Also while it's cold you can feel drafty/leaky areas better, make notes of problem areas to discuss with the contractors.
 
G-rott said:
Slow1 is right on with the advice about energy audits and grants. Many are available.

Are you a DIY type or not? If so much of the caulking and air sealing can be done with supplies from a local lumber yard or hardware.

I've spent too much time around insulation, if you have any questions feel free to ask here or MP me.

Garett

ps. you did ask a question and I didn't answer... a contractor can come out any time, for energy audits with an infrared camera the larger the temperature differential the better. Also while it's cold you can feel drafty/leaky areas better, make notes of problem areas to discuss with the contractors.

I am quite a DIYer. I've done a little of almost everything on my house, so if there are ways I can make some significant wins without having to hire someone, I'd like to know about them. I know I need to top off the insulation in the open part of my attic and blow some in under the floored part of the attic in the middle, but you're suggesting starting in the basement. I don't know what to do down there. I'd be grateful for any and all advice.
 
Oh, and I did get a free energy audit from the utility company. He did talk about the basement and attic being the first priorities, but he didn't get that specific about how to do it. He was assuming I'd hire a contractor to figure that out.
 
Dreezon,

Do you have any insulation in the basement? Is the basement block, poured, stone? Finished or not?

The attic...access? Roof pitch, rafters or trusses, how much space do you have at the rafter/truss heal?(where the rafter/truss sits on the exterior wall)

These all factor into how to insulate and air seal.

The most basic basement/crawlspace air sealing is done with a caulking gun and "good" latex caulking, some type of foam backer rod, and a foam gun to dispense cans of polyurathane(sp?) foam. Great Stuff type foam will work OK but is a major pain and makes a mess. The dispenser gun is a good setup and gives you the control of a pro applicator.

Seal ALL tight joints (wood to wood, wood to masonry) with caulking,
Larger joints and gaps need the foam backer and caulking up to 3/8" or so.
You insert a foam backer rod (half to twice the width of the gap) into the gap with a putty knife or a 5 in 1 painters
tool. (it helps to slightly round off the corners of the too with a file or grinder)
Just seat the rod about as deep as the gap is wide then run a bead of caulking over to finis the seal.
Big gaps are sealed with the foam gun. Be careful this stuff does not com off other tools or clothes. Fill really large gaps a little at
a time to allow for full expansion of the foam. If the surface is real dry misting with a spray bottle will help the foam to expand and bond to the surface.

When your done you can check your work with a burning incense stick if you can find on that you can stand the smell of. Just get it smoldering and let the smoke drift around the sill area, watch for air currents in the smoke. You can do this before you start too, it will show how big a difference your work makes.

Garett
 
G-rott said:
Dreezon,

Do you have any insulation in the basement? Is the basement block, poured, stone? Finished or not?

The attic...access? Roof pitch, rafters or trusses, how much space do you have at the rafter/truss heal?(where the rafter/truss sits on the exterior wall)

These all factor into how to insulate and air seal.

The most basic basement/crawlspace air sealing is done with a caulking gun and "good" latex caulking, some type of foam backer rod, and a foam gun to dispense cans of polyurathane(sp?) foam. Great Stuff type foam will work OK but is a major pain and makes a mess. The dispenser gun is a good setup and gives you the control of a pro applicator.

Seal ALL tight joints (wood to wood, wood to masonry) with caulking,
Larger joints and gaps need the foam backer and caulking up to 3/8" or so.
You insert a foam backer rod (half to twice the width of the gap) into the gap with a putty knife or a 5 in 1 painters
tool. (it helps to slightly round off the corners of the too with a file or grinder)
Just seat the rod about as deep as the gap is wide then run a bead of caulking over to finis the seal.
Big gaps are sealed with the foam gun. Be careful this stuff does not com off other tools or clothes. Fill really large gaps a little at
a time to allow for full expansion of the foam. If the surface is real dry misting with a spray bottle will help the foam to expand and bond to the surface.

When your done you can check your work with a burning incense stick if you can find on that you can stand the smell of. Just get it smoldering and let the smoke drift around the sill area, watch for air currents in the smoke. You can do this before you start too, it will show how big a difference your work makes.

Garett

Sorry for taking so long to respond.

No, I don't have any insulation in the basement. It's concrete block, and I have a lath & plaster ceiling.

The attic has rafters. There is a very narrow opening between the main attic and the soffit part, but I also there is also much steeper roof deck that goes down the sides, and the soffits from the attic.

So where exactly your talking about that need calking? I'm not clear on that. Would I have to bust out my basement ceiling to get to them?
 
Dreezon,

Sorry for the caulking post, I was basing the info on an unfinished basement/crawlspace. You would have to remove the ceiling. But worry not, you can dense pack the rim joist area through the basement ceiling.A hole saw about 3" is enough a hole, save the plug and it's a pretty easy patch. this can be messy/dusty. At least 5 feet from the exterior wall drill one hole per joist bay. If you have the space to work one hole per joist bay is enough, you just need a longer pipe extension. Rent a cellulose blower and hoses, ask about a "pipe" extension, some places have them some don't. If they don't you can make one out of a piece of poly water pipe.

Push the pipe into the hole hold a rag around the pipe at the opening as a sort of seal, turn the blower on and back the pipe out as the blower slows or stops packing insulation, you can get a tighter job by jabbing the pipe into the insulation as you start. Once you have a foot and a half to two feet of insulation packed in the rim joist area stop the blower, let it wind down, then move to the next joist opening.

It's not fast but the result should be worth it. Joist bays (spaces between the joist) with duct work and plumbing can be tough just go slow and work through it, sometime drilling/cutting a "vent" will let the cellulose flow into tight spaces. It's a little more plaster patching but that's just the way it goes.

The walls are prety easy, bow blueboard or pink foamular from Owens Corning, with adhesive. I like to add furring strips for later drywall finishing. For speed I like the ramset fasteners with washers for holding the foam in place while the adhesive dries. 2 or 3 per sheet is enough.

Thickness is up to you, more is better but it's also more expensive. 1 1/2" is nice because 2x material works as furring. Dow also has a product that has indentations for 1x3 furring built right in.

In the attic, you need to build baffles or blockers to keep the insulation out of the eaves. I like cardboard, and an air stapler. Cardboard baffles are usually available at drywall supply houses around here. Cut and fold the cardboard so you can attach it to the top plate of the wall between the rafters, then go straight up to within about two inches from the roof staple the edges of the baffel to the rafters and then follow to roof slope back until you are at least 6 inches higher than the depth of the insulation you want to install. If you have a floor in the attic you can just fill underneath then baffel around the perimiter to get more insulation depth, If you need more insulation you can build a new storage area up off the floor and insulate below the existing floor and the new floor.

Feel free to pm me if you need better directions or have questions.

Garett
 
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