First season with a GW100

[Deere10]

To any GW owners, This is my first heating season with the GW. I seem to be going through way more wood than what others are posting on the site. I had 10 cords stored in my shed where boiler is located,I seem to be over half way thru it. Friends of mine with OWB seem to have burned less then me.Just seemed to be the way to go when I bought it,now I seem to be second guessing myself. I dont have all the specs on heat loss and those figures,but this is what i know. 1950's home,Insulated and new siding in 1990,all new energy saving windows installed 3 yrs ago,roughly 1300 to 1500 sq ft home,shut off the water to water exchanger a couple weeks ago to help save wood. It helped some. Alot of my wood was split in half,but i hit a good pocket of Hickory rounds this week,didnt see that much difference in burn time though.Granted I found this site after my wood was split and just after my purchase of the GW 100. Have found this site to be very very helpful and members are there to help. So thats why I am posting the question where can I start to make this beast better?? Storage?? I have read rounds do help just havent seen it myself. Going to try a couple of changes in the off season if not any better you will see a posting for a GW100 for sale. Just amazed at the difference in wood useage by other posters compared to me.. Thanx for any help. Just bummed out here in upstate NY.

 

[Deere10]

Should have desribed some more. Shut down DHW hx. House is heated w a forced hot air system. Again have to bear w me as somewhat new to forum.

 

[sparke]

Thus far I have burned roughly 2.5 cords in a climate similar to yours. It sounds like your heat load is less then mine also. I use 100% wood boiler for heat and DHW. So I think my situation is a fair comparison to say your wood consumption definately sounds high. That said, there are many variables and I am sure other folks will chime in. For starters, have you checked the water temp as soon as it enters the house to make sure you are not loosing any BTU's in the ground?

 

[2.beans]

does your wood boiler circulate thru the heat exchanger for your forced hot air 24/7? if so id build a bypass so when there was no call for heat it would send the water back to the boiler and not thru the heat exchanger. but first of all you need to know if youre losing it before it reaches the house.

 

[Deere10]

Checked the temps in nov when i fired it up. Lost about 5 degrees from boiler to house which is about a 150 ft run. Havent checked since then,not getting any snow melt over the underground line,like I have seen with others. Another thing I left out was start date of Oct 31,and nov and most of dec have been fairly mild for a change. Thanks for reply

 

[Deere10]

Yes pump in the house circulates 24/7 Just throwing it out there is there a heat loss just running it thru the Hx when house is up to temp? Guess I will bring infrared thremometer home next weekend and start checking temps everywhere thru out system.

 

[sparke]

Deer10, Check out this thread if you haven't already. There are some troubleshooting tips in that thread that may apply to your situation...

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/49567/P15/

 

[91220da]

Deere 10 I made the mistake last year of constantly checking the fire box and I felt compelled to throw wood in every time. I realize now it was not necessary. I learned through others on this site and with experimenting that you do not have to add wood until you output temp is around 150. I have my oil burner set to kick in at 135 so even when the return temp is at 140 (minimum recommended by greenwood) the house is still warm. I also reset the GW aquastat so that the damper opens around 170 and closes at about 185. I also have the loop that keeps my oil boiler up to temp turn on at 160 and off at 175 so on average my oil boiler internal temp is always about 170 which is plenty hot for baseboard heat and dhw. I realize that your air handler hx is a different set up. Big dry rounds do make a huge difference. Splits of any kind burn so fast that you may have to refill it a lot. The best thing you can do is set up a remote thermometer system so you can tell what is going on without running out to your building all the time. If you go out there you will load it.

 

[Deere10]

91220da, last time we were on a post I remember you saying about the smoker thermometer set up. Been crazy w the holidays and havent had a chance to look,but will soon. I dont do the peek in stuff any more if I am out in the shop working I will walk over to it and check temp on boiler,adding when it gets to the 140 mark. It gets loaded up good at 11 pm and by 6am it is at or below the 140 mark,can usually tell by the air temp blowing from the duct at the bottom of the stairs when I walk by it.As I bought this unit used I do not know the maintance of it,and didnt know about the cleaning of the tubes in the unit untill I got going thru this site.Either in the off season or when I run out of wood I plan on doing a tear down of this beast and see what makes it tick.At this rate will run out of wood early to mid march w/out buying any.Have 10 more cord in field but w snow drifts of 6 ft or better not practical to get it out.Will have to crank up the oil burner(uggghhh) I hate to hear that thing fire up n run,sounds like cash flying outta my pocket.Next season I am going with 100% rounds,and try some kinda storage,if that doesnt do it you will see it listed on the site for sale.Not throwing in the towel yet,but seems like I am losing the battle rite now.

 

[91220da]

Sorry Buddy that it is not going as well as planned. It is not a big deal to let it cool down and open up one of the side panels for a cleaning. I took the right panel off looking at the front door. Take the screws out (unless yours is welded)? carefully peel the side panel away being careful not to tear the insulation. You will nead to put the insulation back as you found it. Once the side panel is off you can scrape or wire brush off the tubes. Torrington brush co. has some good boiler brushes that work well. If yours would happen to be plugged with creosote like some in the pictures it really could kill the efficiency. I will try to find and post greenwoods cleaning instructions.

 

[Deere10]

Yes the side panel is screwed on.May tear it down next weekend if time and projects allow. Seems like it takes a day to cool off,correct.So let it go out some time fri. allow to cool sat,take apart sun and clean. I shouls be able to fire it back up after cleaning,correct. Any special stuff that I may need,is insulation re useable?

 

[91220da]

2 pieces of 2x4 about 8" long. Take the lifting eye bolt out of the top and remove the top screws across the front and the back. Lift the top up enough to slide the 2x4 pieces in from the front and the back. Take the side panel screws out and carefully pry the side panel away from the frame. It will be tough because it should be sealed from the factory. Try not to bend, kink, or crease the side panels cause it won't seal as well when you put it back on plus it will look like crap. Take your time and it will come off. The insulation should be attached to that side panel but sometimes it will be stuck to the refractory so peel the side panel away carefully and watch the insulation as you do. The panel is heavy so be careful or have an extra pair of hands. I bought boiler brushes from torrington that fit well between the hx tubes. I actually made a rod that the brush attaches to and I can chuck it in an electric drill. Spin the brush and push it in and out of the tubes. Works great. I think someone else posted that they used an extension rod for spade or paddle type drill bits. I put the panel back on and seal around the outside with high temp caulk. It will be easier to open up next time because you can slice the caulk with a utility knife. Total time if all goes well about an hour or less. Seal it back up and lite it. Don't stress over getting every last speck of creosote off I don't think it is possible.

 

[Deere10]

I have a local HVAC shop that I go to alot,they have brushes there. Approx what is the size of the brush head 3 or 4 inches in dia? Thanks

 

[91220da]

I will measure them when I go out to add wood. But off the top of my head 1 1/2" or 2" you want them to fit between the tubes at the top of the firebox and inbetween the 2 columns of tubes in the back of the unit. I think they are about 3 or 4 inches long

 

[91220da]

Brushes I have are 2" and 3" in diameter by 3" long fine steel wire. I would buy one that is 1 1/2" dia. sometimes the 2" was tough to push between the tubes.

 

[2.beans]

if your losing 5 degrees in 150 feet then you could be losing 5 degrees on the return150 foot run. thats alot. thats what id start checking. i maybe lose 1 in 250 feet.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

I wish I could help more, but I have a 20-plate water-to-water HX with radiant heat. Thus I know nothing about the water-to-air HX situations guys have who have warm air heat.

The one thing I will say is that my first year, I actually apoligized to my wife for spending that much money on the GW. I was constantly messing with it, and the heat produced was marginal. It seemed like the oil burner was constantly coming on, which made me crazy. The way things are now, I am on target to have the GW PAID FOR at the end of this season. The learning curve on these beasts is a b!tch. Hang in there.

Jimbo

 

[Deere10]

Thanks Jimbo I am learning but at times it seems to be kicking my a**. just thought I could squeak out a season on 10 cord of wood,I understand burning splits is not ideal. But will try rounds next season and go from there.

 

[djblech]

I have to agree with the learning curve. This is my 2nd year with th GW-100 and every-time I think I have it figured out things change. This am -18 figured I would be out of wood, lots of wood, water temp 190* after 7.0 hrs. I did go to a 30 plate hx this year which I think helps me. Large rounds, if they barely fit through the door will burn the longest. I put in a new aquastst about 3 wks ago. It came with a preset non adjustable differential of only 5*. This is not what I wanted but it seems to be working really well. My temps are more consistent. Have you checked your draft? To much or to little will change alot.
Hang in there.
Doug

 

[Deere10]

djblech was the 30 plate on the boiler or in your house? Thanks for the input

 

[Deere10]

I havent checked the draft as I have SS chimney pipe and not thrilled about drilling into it.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Doug - You say you went to a 30 Plate . . . what did you have before and how did this change the operation?


Deere - Though (6" on up quality hardwood) rounds are better in my opinion, I would not get too hung up on splits vs rounds. I actually scrounge Oak down to about 1 1/2" :roll: I mean, I don't LOAD it with that much surface area, but I will put a layer of small stuff down on the coals before adding bigger stuff. And when I'm around and don't need/want an 8 hour fire, I will burn small loads of small stuff that I have accumulated.

Same thing on the draft . . . the designer says a specific draft . . . but I can tell you I have NEVER checked mine. Do you really think I just happened to get it right the first time?? Seems unlikely to me. The first year when I was going nuts trying to run this thing the Company got me to buy a draft fan. It still sits there in the shed, having never been installed.

When I look back and try to figure out what changed to go from that awful first year to now, the specific things that come to mind . . .

1) I am using better wood now. Year one I had a bunch of Basswood, some Aspen, Hemlock and Birch. Now I will only burn Aspen or Hemlock if its +40 outside. I will not put another piece of Basswood in the GW.

2)I finally got tired of 'going to check the furnace', opening the load door (I wonder how much that cools the refractory) raking the fire around, removing ashes (and coals and heat). I now load it and leave it.

3)I unplugged my oil burner. Huge stress relief for me. I could never trick the Viessmann into letting the wood handle the mission.

Just my informal impression, these units fall in between a traditional OWB and a forced down draft Euro-style. And from my experiance and others here, I would venture to say that you will burn the most wood the first year. Your usage will diminish each year for at least a couple of years.

Jimbo

 

[djblech]

I have a 20 plate hx that I used last year. My return temps were not that much lower than the supply. I don't think I was transfering as much heat to the house loop as I am with the 30 plate hx. I think the larger hx works better with my bb radiant as the house loop temps are higher. I don't have any thermometers to give actual measurements but the house feels warmer. My hx is in the basement about 75' from the GW and about 5' from my gas boiler and house loop. I am running 1" pex in a 6" draintile with insulation in the draintile and 2" of foam over the top. My pex is almost 5' underground. I do not get any snowmelt on the top.
Doug

 

[Trzebs13]

I Agree with Jimbo, Don't get to hung up on splits or rounds. I really don't think there is a huge difference. You will get longer burns out of them but you do seem to get more dipping or creosote from the big rounds. But big splits seem to work just about as well. Matter of opinion as far as I'm concerned. A couple of things I would check is if your draft door is totally closing. I noticed a few weeks ago that mine some how changed and was not closing 100%. And the other thing, seems to me that a 5 deg drop in water temp with no load is allot. I don't run mine under ground so I'm no expert on that. Helpfully some one here is. One question I have is what kind of wood are you burning? Seems like a easy question but my buddy was b!tchn about his OWB appetite and he was burning punky poplar. Something seems funny cuz I've only gone threw about 2.5 cords of oak so far.

 

[Gooserider]

Two thoughts that occur to me on looking at this thread...

1. Vocabulary matching - Is everyone using the same size "cord"? Sounds like dumb question, but I've seen other threads get off track because one person was using "full cords" (4x4x8=128³') and the other was using "face cords" (4x?x8=??? but usually about 1/3 of a full cord) - considering that 10 face cord of 16" wood = 3.3 full cords, there might not be as much consumption difference as it seems...

2. (mostly at Jimbo) Don't discount experience with a boiler just because you aren't familiar with the distribution hardware (or vice versa...) Remember that the boiler doesn't know or care what's at the other end of the pipes - all it "knows" is it has something that wants X amount of volume, at Y°F supply temp, and it will send back Z°F return temp, consuming N BTU/hr in the process... Doesn't matter if it's an HX (water/water or water/air) or a radiant heating setup of some sort - think of the distribution end as a "black box" - if looking at the distribution end, think of the boiler the same way... That model can make figuring this stuff out a lot easier because it lets you ignore all the irrelevant details...

Gooserider