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  1. overland47

    overland47 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Loc:
    Olympia, WA
    Hey guys, first post here but I love the site. I've been lurking for years and I've always been able to find the answers I've been looking for without posting, but not this time...

    I have what I believe to be a Fisher style insert that was in my house when I bought it last summer, but it says "Woodland" on it. Long story short, it was a typical slammer install into a brick fireplace with a 9"x13" terracotta lined brick chimney. We've been using it all winter and it is an awesome stove and heats our 1600 sq. ft. home with ease. Until we had a chimney fire last week.... The top few terracotta tiles now have cracks in them so I'm going to put a stainless steel liner in. After a ton of research, I now know that I should put a liner in no matter the condition of the brick chimney for draft and easier cleaning, among other reasons.

    I have a few questions though... the stove has an 8" outlet but I'm wondering if 6" will be ok for cost reasons and to make it easier when/if I upgrade to a newer stove? Also, I'm wondering how necessary the flue damper is for my application. I have an idea how to hook the liner up to the stove and still keep the flue damper, but it would be a lot easier to just remove it. One last question, how necessary is it to insulate the the stainless liner? If I use the 6" liner, insulating will be easy, but a little more difficult if I need to use the 8".

    A few details... single story 1600 sq. ft home. The chimney/fireplace is in the center of the house with about 3' above the peak of the roof, making it about 12' from the stove outlet to the rain cap. We live in western WA in a pretty temperate climate, mostly 30's and 40's this time of year sometimes dipping down to the 20's. We burn 24/7 mostly fir and alder, but sometimes maple and oak too.

    Thanks a lot and I appreciate any help you can give.

    A few pictures....

    Attached Files:

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  2. valley ranch

    valley ranch Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    409
    Loc:
    Ranches in Sierra Nevada mts,Calif & Nevada
    I'ed say no, 8" out of the box, put in an 8" or methinks you'll be sorry if you don't. I'ed put in an 8" tube even if the stove was 6" you never know if you want to put in a different box.
    I just installed a chimney and was thinking about putting in a 6",I have both, I put in the 8" and happy I did. Good luck
  3. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    49,831
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Welcome overland. 12 ft is a short chimney. EPA stoves need stronger draft frequently because they have to pull air through secondary ducting and manifold. If the intent is to go EPA eventually then putting in an 8" flue for a 6" EPA stove is just going to compound drafting issues. Add our mild climate and you have a trifecta for poor performance. If you can extend the chimney about 2 ft, the difference should be noticeable.

    Also, that old fellow will never pass insurance or permitting in this state. It's time to look at the big picture and get this done right IMO. With the terra cotta cracks, you will need to insulate.

    PS: This insert is not huge, but would get the job done, though overnight burns might be a challenge with softwood.
    http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tnc13i--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1550131500.html

    PPS: the handtruck need some air in the right tire. :)
  4. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    If it is 8" leave it 8" it was made like that for a reason. When you change diameter of a stove pipe you run into draft problems that will haunt you forever. It can be a real nightmere to deal with and then your out the cost of the liner and you will need to buy a new one if it doesn't work out for you. As for upgrading to a newer stove almost all the stoves I have seen in recent years are 6" however the liner cost is minimal if you think about all the draft issues will have trying to run that big guy on a 6" flu. It isn't worth the hassle to argue and be unhappy with your stove you want to be happy and enjoy it!

    Pete
  5. Locust Post

    Locust Post Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,063
    Loc:
    Northeast Ohio
    I would say you should stick to an 8 inch liner. Your chimney is not that tall and I would worry with a 6 inch you will not get enough draw. The other thing you have against you is the warmer weather you talk about, is going to cut down on your draft as it is. I think given those 2 negatives I would definitely stay with the 8 inch. You do need to consider insulating your liner as that will keep the liner much warmer and reduce the creosote. You can always use the poured in insulation if you are too tight to get the blanket wrapped insulation down your flue. I have an older insert that was a slammer until this year and I put an 8 inch liner down mine. I have a 10.5 x 10.5 ID flue so I had enough clearance for an insulation wrap. My creosote build up is minimal just a little up top,the rest gets some fine powder, not much at all. I think I can see from your pictures you have a damper plate that swivels made right on the stove. If so that is how mine is set up. I had a good friend fab an adapter that sets over top of the outlet and the damper plate still swivels inside that adapter. My opening is square so he made it go from square to round with a lip extending off the edge and I then drilled and tapped the top of the stove to secure it (it only goes into the outer jacket for the air blower chamber not into the firebox). I glued stove gasket on the bottom and had him fashion a tunnel that I could fill with stove gasket for the damper rod to pass through. Hope that helps.
  6. Locust Post

    Locust Post Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,063
    Loc:
    Northeast Ohio
    Just read Be Greens post. Permits in your area are something you need to think about. I know by other posts I've read it is pretty strict out your way. I'm confident mine is very safe but I live in the country and not a lot of red tape here.
  7. valley ranch

    valley ranch Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    409
    Loc:
    Ranches in Sierra Nevada mts,Calif & Nevada
    I heard something about: was it Oregon? Everyone with a stove would pay yearly for having a non EpA stove. People with EPa stoves would pay also but not as much. With this money they have hired or would hire people to inspect your stoves, nice jobs with pentions and all. I apologize if I am refering to the wrong state.

    Have I heard wrong?
  8. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    49,831
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    See if Thurston County has a buy-out replacement program. I know Pierce County does, but not sure about Thurston.

    PS: Just checked. It looks like you can get $1000 for replacing that old dogger. If this checks out for your stove, go for it.

    www.orcaa.org/index.php/download_file/view/780/1/
  9. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    29,148
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    Those old hoss's were made to belch out into a large chimney and pray for draft. The draft from a six inch liner is like putting a super charger on them.
  10. milease

    milease New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Loc:
    Wisconsin
    Hi! We actually have a question for you. We have a similar stove and are looking for a manual or more information on this stove.... you wouldn't happen to have anything would you? We have ours installed in the center of our little hunting cabin.

    Here is a link our posts... http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/88945/

    Attached Files:

  11. overland47

    overland47 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Loc:
    Olympia, WA
    The stove is insured and was never questioned by my insurance company. The way I read that buy out brochure is that it's for replacing wood heat with high efficiency electric or gas. My house already has an efficient heat pump and someday I'd like to upgrade to a new stove, but it's just not in the cards right now. For now I just need to make it safe again and hopefully a little more efficient. I'm happy with how it burns now but everything I've read says putting in a liner will only make it better. I'm going to put in a baffle plate like coalie wrote about while I have it out also.

    I think I'll go with the 8" liner, I was just wondering if I could get away with 6" as I had read that the 8" was necessary for burning with the doors open, but not for burning with the doors closed.

    Locust post pretty much describes what I had in mind for keeping the flue damper, I'm just not sure if it's worth the hassle. I've never had a flue damper before on a stove and I never noticed any difference using this one.

    The chimney fire was my fault... we just bought this house and I was checking the chimney every other week while learning how this stove likes to burn... it sure doesn't take long for creosote to build up. Knowing what I know now it's no wonder it happened and I guess it was kind of a good thing because now I know it wasn't right and needed a liner put in anyway.

    milease- Sorry I have nothing. I've poked around on the web a bit but haven't been able to find anything. I kind of just assumed Woodland was local manufacturer but I guess not.
  12. Bone1099

    Bone1099 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    165
    Loc:
    Northwest GA
    I have a fisher insert and agree it looks very similar to what you have. I agree with some of the earlier posts you will be money and heartache ahead to go with the 6 inch liner insulated. It will be more than enough for the stove you operate now as a slammer install. One of these days when a new stove is in the cards it will be an easier transition. No matter what you think she wants trust me 6 inches is enough to make her scream. As long as its installed properly. HE HE HE.

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