FLAME DEFENDER

[GENECOP]

I did a quick search saw nothing on them, they are automatic Fire Extiguishers. Available in three sizes , I thought it might be a nice safety feature if posistioned somewhere above the indoor furnace near the Fluepipe. The activation temp is 155Deg, so choosing the correct placement is critical for obvious reasons...Has anyone considered these? If you did , and even if you didn't, where would you place it? Directly above the furnace? High near the flue pipe? In front near the loading door?.....

 

[laynes69]

Hmmm, interesting. I had no idea something like this was made. For us, everything around our furnace is either steel or concrete, except for the floor above of course. In order to have flame, the ductwork would have to start the fire, hence the clearances. I would say if there's anything around the furnace that's combustible, I'd lean in that direction for the extinguisher.

 

[GENECOP]

I was thinking more about Chimney Fire safety...

 

[stee6043]

With a 155 activation I don't think you're going to want it too terribly close to the business end of your furnace.

If I were going to go this route (and I have considered it) I'd just pex up a couple of standard fire sprinkler heads in the boiler room. Cheap, easy to install, will run until you shut them off. The downside, they will run until you shut them off.

If water isn't what you're looking for than surely these are not the right answer. But for the money you could probably toss three or four heads up in your boiler room for the same cost as one of those items you mentioned above.

 

[GENECOP]

The single small unit I purchased was about $40, it covers a 4' radius. I never thought about just pex ing in a couple of regular sprinkler heads, good idea, thanks, I will start to look into that also...All these ideas just seem like real good Inexpensive insurance.....Everyone should consider some type of protection...Of coarse the first level of defense is good safety habits and cleaning routines, but a little backup is always a good idea...

 

[BoilerMan]

With a 155 activation I don't think you're going to want it too terribly close to the business end of your furnace.

If I were going to go this route (and I have considered it) I'd just pex up a couple of standard fire sprinkler heads in the boiler room. Cheap, easy to install, will run until you shut them off. The downside, they will run until you shut them off.

If water isn't what you're looking for than surely these are not the right answer. But for the money you could probably toss three or four heads up in your boiler room for the same cost as one of those items you mentioned above.

That is exactly what I did, ebay'd the sprinkler heads, and put up some in the garage with bedrooms above as well.

TS

 

[GENECOP]

In attempting to place the head or heads in the most effective location for a flue fire prevention, where would be the best location for them? Is there a typical location that flue fires begin? Highest point(top of flue) lowest point, near stove/boiler outlet....where typically do flue fires start? Any ideas? I would think there is an answer out there....or could they start anywhere in the Fluepipe.....

 

[BoilerMan]

I think you may be going at this all wrong.
I'm not trying to be crass here, but why are you worried about flue fires?

I installed mine above my boiler and one over my firewood storage area which is in the same room. It is just for piece of mind, honestly I cannot see how fire could ever start from a double steel, water-jacketed, clean-burning fire. Creosote is not allowed to form in the flue as everything is burned in the boiler, only flyash is in the flue when it's annually cleaned in the spring shutdown.

TS

 

[GENECOP]

I was under the impression that a Flue fire was always a POSSIBILTY even if minor....and I was thinking for $100 why not posistion to help if it ever occured. As far as creosote forming or not in the flue pipe I was always told that what you said while true is based on A perfect set of variables....Creosote can not form if.....wood has the proper moisture content, fire is correct temperature, flue pipe is correct temperature, all these conditions must exist at all times and sure nothing to worry about....I am not sure about everyone else but throughout my burn cycle anyone of these conditions could be off...Maybe I am overly concerned but again I figured for a small investment why not protect against what I thought was the most common type of fire in wood burning appliances...

 

[infinitymike]

I too have a sprinkler head tied into the domestic water lines.
It is directly above the where I stand to load the boiler.
It would give a big enough spread to cover the rack of wood next to the boiler to.
About 9' above the floor, I have sloping ceilings in the garage.
I have galvanized piping along the ceiling and down the wall where it connects with the pex line.
I figure if there was a fire, I don't want the pex to melt before the sprinkler can do its job.
I also have a standard hand held fire extinguisher hanging on the wall.

Like stee said, the problem is it will run until I shut it off.
Fortunately, my boiler is in the garage and a flood wouldn't pose a big concern.

And like BM said, the chances are slim to none in my opinion for a fire.
But that does depend on the way your flue is piped.
Mine comes out of the Wood Gun and is a straight 10' pipe to the cap.
Without a horizontal run theres No chance of any build up of anything that could ignite.

 

[skfire]

Be carefull with sprk heads, types, location and temp ratings. Follow NFPA 13, 2002 version and whichever local applicable codes your local AHJ requires.
Additionally if this is done correctly, your ins carrier can give you a discount as high as 25% pending on system design.
Regarding residential heads in most local code reqs a 10min duration is deemed sufficient.
Minimum distances from flues, soffits(obstructions) and deflector locations are vital.

Scott

 

[Vizsla]

Several of our communities require sprinkler heads in the mechanical room. I've even seen some tied into metal chimney, but I have no idea how those worked. I know the waterline had no water in it until it released somehow. Similar to dry systems in commercial.

 

[skfire]

Several of our communities require sprinkler heads in the mechanical room. I've even seen some tied into metal chimney, but I have no idea how those worked. I know the waterline had no water in it until it released somehow. Similar to dry systems in commercial.

What you are referring to as metal chimney with heads in it are most likely trash chutes or linen chutes.
By code there have to be sprk hds in them on alternating floors. They are fed by a dedicated riser and the open head in the compactor is controlled by a solenoid vlv.(see the attached sketch)

 

[stee6043]

Be carefull with sprk heads, types, location and temp ratings. Follow NFPA 13, 2002 version and whichever local applicable codes your local AHJ requires.
Additionally if this is done correctly, your ins carrier can give you a discount as high as 25% pending on system design.
Regarding residential heads in most local code reqs a 10min duration is deemed sufficient.
Minimum distances from flues, soffits(obstructions) and deflector locations are vital.

Scott

What we're talking about here is not intended to be anything that would ever satisfy any kind of building codes or otherwise meet NFPA guidelines. Residential sprinkler systems are things of folk lore for most. With the way the NFPA guidelines are written the prospect of DIY'ing a system that meets the requirements are probably always going to remain slim, to none. Some 40+% (total guess based on a few estimates I saw) of the average system cost is from the engineer with at least 15 letters behind his name, of which I'm betting you might be one! ha.

I like the idea of adding heads as pure loss prevention and added safety for the occupants. It's so affordable and DIY friendly with today's plumbing technology. But us guys in cold climates with well water will probably never be able to justify installing a legitimate residential system through the entire house retroactively. Antifreeze, backup pumps, flow rate issues, alarms, tests, and more tests are maybe...just maybe....part of the reason these systems really haven't take off yet.

My two cents only of course.

 

[skfire]

What we're talking about here is not intended to be anything that would ever satisfy any kind of building codes or otherwise meet NFPA guidelines. Residential sprinkler systems are things of folk lore for most. With the way the NFPA guidelines are written the prospect of DIY'ing a system that meets the requirements are probably always going to remain slim, to none. Some 40+% (total guess based on a few estimates I saw) of the average system cost is from the engineer with at least 15 letters behind his name, of which I'm betting you might be one! ha.

I like the idea of adding heads as pure loss prevention and added safety for the occupants. It's so affordable and DIY friendly with today's plumbing technology. But us guys in cold climates with well water will probably never be able to justify installing a legitimate residential system through the entire house retroactively. Antifreeze, backup pumps, flow rate issues, alarms, tests, and more tests are maybe...just maybe....part of the reason these systems really haven't take off yet.

My two cents only of course.

Actually NFPA13D, was issued for this purpose(no folklore..it is real).
One and two family dwellings & manufactured homes(only 20 pages sans index and such).

IMHO, if you are going through the trouble to install a partial sprk system it would advisable to read the basic installation requirements in NFPA13D(it is only about 2-3 pages), for 2 simple reasons:

a) if you will install something do it correctly for safety reasons( we do that with every other MEP system in our houses..Fire protection code should be as important, if not more).
and
b) God forbid in case of a fire, your insurance claim will be based on your install review...meet code or not....so if not code compliant good luck in collecting.(water damage can far exceed fire loss and it is worse because they will make you keep the dwelling and only pay for repairs...)

I do not recommend a whole house install, even though the guys with the train letters you mentioned are pushing to make it std code for all residences(I do not agree), but a small partial boiler room coverage(only about 2 hds) may be a good idea. Again having said that, do I have one?; no and I am an FP engineer.
I as well am in a cold climate with well water and having a 2 head system would require a mini pump/tank combo to supply the 10 minute duration required(about 25gpm @ a 10 minute supply = 250gallons at 10-12#)...too expensive, thus...no go for me as well.

Simply surmised, all I am saying, is "if you gonna do it, do it right and not half assed, it is not a slap a pipe and a sprk head maneuver, but also it is not that complicated to review 2 pages of code install parameters(much easier than DIY a boiler install)."

If anyone needs some help with this I am more than available to review and help out for free..ha

Scott

 

[skfire]

Some 40+% (total guess based on a few estimates I saw) of the average system cost is from the engineer with at least 15 letters behind his name, of which I'm betting you might be one! ha.

pretty off on that percentage, install labor and pump/tank material are 90-95% cost, eng fees about 5-10 pending on size of project and filling fees if required are not included.

I myself stay away from small res projects, I only do high/mid rises in NYC both res and comm.

I have done about 10-15 small residences, for never more than $750 and about 10 for free.

Scott