Floating White Particles in Garn

[bpirger]

I took my water sample this morning in the Garn and for the first time in the past year, I had floating white tiny particles on the surface of the water. Otherwise it was clear.

I inserted a new anode rod about 2 months ago...and it is clearly "active" as it looked all rough. I also added about 150-175 gallons of water at the time of adding the rod. Water was filter through the 5um filter as was the initial fill.

Water sample sent off to Precision today, so I will hear back soon. It's the usual six months sample.

Now the HX tubes are coated with a white material, always have been since the first few months, so I don't know if this white "particulates" are it flaking off or what. I did have a burn that got up to 210....maybe it broke free in some boil? Stupid me....to much wood.

Anyone ever see floating stuff on the water?

Thanks!

 

[Jim K in PA]

Did you get some of the particles in the sample bottle? Mike should be able to tell what they are. Make sure you note what you saw on the sheet that goes with the sample. I doubt it's anything to worry about.

 

[bpirger]

Yes I did, and yes I did. I agree, I suspect it is just some of the scale from the HX tubing. Though it has never been seen before...that's a little interesting. I'm not too worried. I wonder if I should get out a fine net and try to skim some of it off. Presumably if it didn't float and got into the circulating water, it might crud up my HX a bit. I have a strainer, but this stuff will go right through that mesh I think....

Jim, are you the new dealer now in this neck of the woods?

 

[Sawyer]

I too will be anxious to hear the results of your test. I have a fine rust colored film on my tubes. My last test came back good. I do like the fact that Mike provides an analysis of the test rather than just it ok or not ok.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Yes I did, and yes I did. I agree, I suspect it is just some of the scale from the HX tubing. Though it has never been seen before...that's a little interesting. I'm not too worried. I wonder if I should get out a fine net and try to skim some of it off. Presumably if it didn't float and got into the circulating water, it might crud up my HX a bit. I have a strainer, but this stuff will go right through that mesh I think....

Excellent. If the particles are that fine that they will go through the strainers at the HX, then they will probably flow right through the HX. I cleaned my strainers for the first time during last season and was amazed at the crud that was in them. I checked them again this fall and they were almost spotless. I did not take my HX down to clean it, but I back flushed it from the GARN and nothing came out. My flow is good and my approach temp is the same now as when it was new 3 years ago. Keep an eye on the strainers and I think you will be fine.

I do have to check my anode rods though.

Jim, are you the new dealer now in this neck of the woods?

Yes, as of this past April I am the GARN rep for PA, NY, NJ, MD, and DE. I have been keeping my posts 100% personal in terms of response and information to keep this forum as pure as possible. I do need to talk to Craig though about setting up a vendor account through Hearth.

Cheers!

 

[Sawyer]

Thanks for the cleaning suggestion Jim, I have not checked my strainers since I went into operation a year ago. Thanks to the installation tips I received during my installation process I can also isolate the strainers and back flush. A little extra time and expense initially sure makes things easier for maintenance!

 

[Jim K in PA]

Thanks for the cleaning suggestion Jim, I have not checked my strainers since I went into operation a year ago. Thanks to the installation tips I received during my installation process I can also isolate the strainers and back flush. A little extra time and expense initially sure makes things easier for maintenance!

My pleasure George.

 

[bpirger]

Yep, I have to clean and flush my strainers too....have those nice Webstone purge valves in the loop, so it should be trvial....just have to run a couple of hoses and turn them on!

George, what kind of analysis have you seen from Mike at Precision? More than just the sheet that has a labeled range for a few items and the measured sample value and an OK? I of course would like to see a much more detailed report, like how my Garn compares to the past 5000 samples from everyone else, etc. so I have a better reference point.

As it is, I get the one sheet with a few lines filled in....maybe I'll give him a call this year too.

As for the anaodes Jim, I know Harry down in PA is on his third....I'm on my second...in one year! We both had ground rods driven and connected to the Garn...along with the power panel I/O connection. So maybe there was a ground loop of sorts? My anode, in the tank only for about 6 weeks, sure looked like it was active however....

Hmmmm. Get's expensive replacing anodes...

 

[Sawyer]

Yep, I have to clean and flush my strainers too....have those nice Webstone purge valves in the loop, so it should be trvial....just have to run a couple of hoses and turn them on!

George, what kind of analysis have you seen from Mike at Precision? More than just the sheet that has a labeled range for a few items and the measured sample value and an OK? I of course would like to see a much more detailed report, like how my Garn compares to the past 5000 samples from everyone else, etc. so I have a better reference point. As it is, I get the one sheet with a few lines filled in....maybe I'll give him a call this year too.

Bruce, now that you mention it, your idea would be nice for comparison and understanding of where on the scale I would be. I have attached my two test for viewing.

 

[bpirger]

Yep, those look very familiar. I'll post mine tomorrow....but I think they are essentially the same...save I didn't have the nitrites below 1000.... Did you add some more CLT-200?

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

Yep, I have to clean and flush my strainers too....have those nice Webstone purge valves in the loop, so it should be trvial....just have to run a couple of hoses and turn them on!

George, what kind of analysis have you seen from Mike at Precision? More than just the sheet that has a labeled range for a few items and the measured sample value and an OK? I of course would like to see a much more detailed report, like how my Garn compares to the past 5000 samples from everyone else, etc. so I have a better reference point. As it is, I get the one sheet with a few lines filled in....maybe I'll give him a call this year too.

Bruce, now that you mention it, your idea would be nice for comparison and understanding of where on the scale I would be. I have attached my two test for viewing.

I'm not a chemist, but it would be nice to see the test results with a dimension.
For PH I know it is just a number on a scale from 0 to 15 I believe.
What about the other values?

 

[augercreek]

I too have noticed white clumps of some kind of material floating around in the water. You can also see them sitting on the tubes and burn chamber. This is my second year of heating with the same water in the Garn and this year I had to add a anti bacterial liquid to it this fall. I didn't notice any thing in the water before though. Could it be from the bacteria? How often should the water be changed? I'm due to send in a sample this next month so maybe some answers then.

 

[Sawyer]

Yes Bruce, I did add one pail of CLT-200. I do not know why that figure was low. Initially I added two pails.

I'm not a chemist either but I am assuming it is better to be a couple of points (one hundred times) more basic than water than being on the acidic side with the same difference from basic.

 

[Sawyer]

augercreek, did you burn your Garn during the summer or did it sit idle?

 

[augercreek]

The Garn was idle from July to the 1st of Sept.

 

[Sawyer]

The Garn was idle from July to the 1st of Sept.

I wonder if a person fired the boiler once a month to 200 degrees during the off season if that would keep the bacteria in check?

 

[bpirger]

I received my water sample response back from Mike at precision....pH is 10.3, higher than ever. Initial plain water test was 9.1, after first treatment 9.7, six months was 9.7, and now 1 year is 10.3. I added about 150 gallons of water before the last test....I would have expected it it drop down a bit....maybe needing more chemicals?

Conductivity/TDS was initial water sample: 220, first treatment 2700, six months 2900. and one year 3200.

Nitrite test: initial sample untested, initial treatment 1280, six months 1400, one year 1440. Desired range on this is 1000/1500.

No biological activity....

Mike says the white stuff isn't a concern. I also realized I had cleaned the HX tubes, so I bet those are indeed things that came free from the HX tubing as I cleaned it. I rotated the brushes in the tubes for awhile and the fiberglass rod would occasional bang the pipes....I'm fairly certain that some of the white coating on the tubes just came off and floated up....

 

[Kemer]

How's your anode rod looking?

 

[bpirger]

It's being used! When I took my sample, no doubt about it......so I'm not sure what is going on.... How's yours? Did the consumption stop?

 

[Kemer]

I just replaced it about a week ago so it's to early to tell.But I will keep you informed.By the way I went looking locally for a rod and they were more $ then Garns

 

[Sawyer]

Mike says the white stuff isn't a concern. I also realized I had cleaned the HX tubes, so I bet those are indeed things that came free from the HX tubing as I cleaned it. I rotated the brushes in the tubes for awhile and the fiberglass rod would occasional bang the pipes....I'm fairly certain that some of the white coating on the tubes just came off and floated up....

Did you remove much soot or creosote from the tubes? Did you notice an increase in efficiency after cleaning? Sorry Bruce, one more question Were you able to reuse your gaskets?

 

[bpirger]

Hi George:

Yes, I was able to reuse. I bent over a putty knife and used that around the edges to try and get it free nicely. No real problems....and I don't see any obvious leaks afterwards.

I did remove a fair amount of stuff from the tubes. Looking inside, they were smooth and "clear", but twirling the brushes around and pulling the stuff out, I did get significant junk. I think I wrote this in another thread....I'll find it and post the link. But if I recall, the last two tubes (closest to the exit, i.e. where the gas is coldest) were the worst, and I think I got maybe 3-4 cups of junk from the two tubes combined? The stuff falls into the collar where the motor mounts...and shop vacs out very easily.

EDIT: Here's the link. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/84033/ The cleaning discussion is in the last couple of paragraphs! Sorry for the novel...

Increase in efficiency? Nothing obvious was noted here. If I was weighing my wood and all maybe I could detect a difference, but from just burning a load, seemed to be the same to me....

 

[Sawyer]

Hi George:

Yes, I was able to reuse. I bent over a putty knife and used that around the edges to try and get it free nicely. No real problems....and I don't see any obvious leaks afterwards.

I did remove a fair amount of stuff from the tubes. Looking inside, they were smooth and "clear", but twirling the brushes around and pulling the stuff out, I did get significant junk. I think I wrote this in another thread....I'll find it and post the link. But if I recall, the last two tubes (closest to the exit, i.e. where the gas is coldest) were the worst, and I think I got maybe 3-4 cups of junk from the two tubes combined? The stuff falls into the collar where the motor mounts...and shop vacs out very easily.

EDIT: Here's the link. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/84033/ The cleaning discussion is in the last couple of paragraphs! Sorry for the novel...

Increase in efficiency? Nothing obvious was noted here. If I was weighing my wood and all maybe I could detect a difference, but from just burning a load, seemed to be the same to me....

Well Bruce, perhaps I spent my money foolishly as I have already ordered my gaskets from Garn. Or maybe for once I am planning ahead for the time when I need them. ;-)

I am getting everything ready for Phyllis as I am having foot surgery on both feet and will be in a walker for 6-7 weeks. She will be the one fueling the beast.

I am anxious to see the condition of my tubes as I burned pine slabwood most of the summer to now which should leave more residue than dry hard maple.

I will let you know if I find anything unusual.

 

[bpirger]

Good luck with the feet George! Being off them for that long will be hard to do....hopefully all will go well! My wife does more burns than I do I think. In fact, she proudly boasts how close she can get to 190 nearly everytime.

And yes, I bought a set of all the gaskets as well, just in case! Sooner or later! The first pipe (bottom left) had a metal piece on the inside surface of the gasket. I think that was the only one. That was the only surprise I had.

I also burned all that spruce for the summer...and wasn't sure what I was going to see. Somewhere I have a few pictures....though they came out quite poor....

 

[Kemer]

George and Bruce
I was told foil between gaskets and Garn will keep them from sticking.I used graphite and that seems to work.
Harry