Floor & ceiling joists

[dh1989]

I'm working on drawing out a stove install which will be in my finished basement. The chimney will penetrate the first floor with the support box framed there. Then it will penetrate the first floor ceiling into the attic and through the roof.

My concern is that I may hit either a floor joist on the first floor or a roof truss going through the first floor roof and attic area. From what I've read it is not recommended to cut and reframe a roof truss. However, if need be, can I cut and reframe a floor joist where the support box will be? I won't be able to double up the adjacent joists as they rest on the top of the foundation of the house.

#2 is how it would have to be framed out:


Basement where the stove will be:
http://postimg.org/image/e3sij58bz/

First floor, chimney chased along office wall:
http://s11.postimg.org/xqch3aern/Upstairs.gif

 

[Ambient]

Why can't you rest them on the foundation adjacent to the existing joists?

The proper way to frame it is with Modification # 1while also using hangers.

Load calculations must be considered for preventing failure in the future, if an attempt to use modification #2. The previous owners here did an install like that, I ended up tearing out the whole floor and installing all new trusses, as the 15 pound Jack Russell made the floor bounce when we first walked into this place. If mod#2 were to work, the load calc's would need to pass the scrutiny of the code officer. A subsequent sale might be held up because it's discovered by the potential buyer, and you and yours would be at risk in the mean time.

When I built the barn I used 2 x 12's and still did Mod#1 even though there wasn't any intent to store hay up in the loft, it was the potential that needed to be engineered for.

I'd really want to know why you can't sister in new joists? Are the existing joists mortared in?

 

[DAKSY]

The proper framing would be the same as any other opening thru floor joists, like a stairwell.
You need to header off the one you cut with a double joist spanning the two on either side.
Install a joist hanger where the cut meets the double.
If you can't double up the one on the sill, I don't see that making much of a difference, structurally.
I would, however, install a short transverse joist as close to the foundation as possible, maybe even a double...
You can't cut a roof truss without an engineer signing off on the design, at least that's the
way it works here in NY...

 

[dh1989]

I may be able to double up the joists, I have to open the ceiling and see what I have to work with.

As for trusses - I forgot that I don't have a trussed gable roof at this house. I actually have a hip roof:


I assume it's a no go on cutting those common rafters as well?

 

[Jo191145]

I may be able to double up the joists, I have to open the ceiling and see what I have to work with.

As for trusses - I forgot that I don't have a trussed gable roof at this house. I actually have a hip roof:


I assume it's a no go on cutting those common rafters as well?

Anything built on site by a carpenter can be recut and redone as long as it's done correctly. Engineered roof trusses that come premade on a truck shouldn't be messed with. Chances are high you'll find it much easier replacing floor joists than reframing the roof.

 

[begreen]

If you can make it a straight shot up through the floors and ceilings they make 15 and 30 deg offset elbows in class A if you need to adjust alignment in the attic.

 

[Oldman47]

Begreen has the best answer and that is to find a way to avoid cutting trusses or joists and rafters if at all possible. Next best option is the framing that DAKSY suggested and is your Modification 1. Even if your floor joists are inset into the foundation wall it is possible to sister up the supporting joists for most of the length and just let the load concentrate on the ends on a single joist. Let's say the open span is 15 feet, those doubled up joists could still be 14 feet long and give you good support. With the standard doubled up supports the intent is to provide a nice solid support for the doubled cross braces. If you sister those joists for most of their length there will be adequate support for those spots. If you can't get a good enough support on one end or the other, you always have the option of adding a jack under the weaker side of the opening.

 

[JasonClark]

Hey everyone, I am looking for suggestion, which tile will go best for hearth. Initially I thought of marble and terra cotta but should they stand the heat. After reading Omicron Granite reviews I thought of using tile for the hearth for classy look.

 

[billb3]

I may be able to double up the joists, I have to open the ceiling and see what I have to work with.

As for trusses - I forgot that I don't have a trussed gable roof at this house. I actually have a hip roof:


I assume it's a no go on cutting those common rafters as well?

Generally, the common rafters are the only ones you would cut.
Stone, Brick and mortar chimneys have penetrated (hip) roofs for centuries.

 

[begreen]

Hey everyone, I am looking for suggestion, which tile will go best for hearth. Initially I thought of marble and terra cotta but should they stand the heat. After reading Omicron Granite reviews I thought of using tile for the hearth for classy look.

Stone or terra cotta or porcelain tile will work fine. Stick with a decent quality tile properly installed and you should be fine.

 

[dh1989]

Generally, the common rafters are the only ones you would cut.
Stone, Brick and mortar chimneys have penetrated (hip) roofs for centuries.

billb3 I didn't think of that. I have a chimney for the oil boiler that must penetrate those common rafters on the back of the house (opposite where the stove chimney will be). I will have to get up there and take a look at how it is framed out. I'm just thinking it would be great for inspection purposes to have a straight shot of chimney and a clean out at the bottom so I can look right up it and run my brush.

So far I've done some poking around in the ceiling downstairs and it looks like I need to cut one floor joist. I am trying to keep the chase from coming too far into the room upstairs and if I work around the joist I am going to be an extra foot into the room - not good. However, because the joist to be cut is right next to a sistered joist framing out the stairwell. This means I'm already half way there and just need to sister up the other adjacent joist. I think I can miss the joist in the upstairs ceiling but that's just based on the not so accurate stud finder. Won't know until I open that up as well.

 

[begreen]

If it's a straight shot up from the stove usually there is no cleanout tee. On most stoves you can either remove the baffle, or on some open the bypass to facilitate cleaning. Typically you can then clean it straight up through the stove.

What stove is going in?

 

[dh1989]

BK Ashford 30. I meant straight chimney. The stove pipe will have a 90 deg bend as the stove will be further out from the wall than the chimney connection. Was planning a cleanout T off the support box then a short horizontal run, 90 and down to the stove.

 

[begreen]

I was thinking to just come straight down into the stove with the last section of connector as telescoping for easier install and cleaning.

 

[dh1989]

I was thinking to just come straight down into the stove with the last section of connector as telescoping for easier install and cleaning.

This is a rough sketch of what I'm planning, including the cleanout T. If I go straight up my chase sticks way out into my office, which is where I'm trying to build a desk around it (and blend it into some 12" deep cabinets).

 

[begreen]

The connector pipe will still need to be at least 6" front the wall.