Floor Registers? Moving heat up from the basement.

[SKIN052]

With the cold temps quickly on the way I am about to start a project that I am looking for some advice on. I have installed Floor register covers before to move air from the basement upstairs when I had a Pellet stove and it did the trick. It was only after I did it did I find out that it was a no-no. I simply cut a hole to fit the register cover in the floor and another in the ceiling cause a straight through penetration. Apparently according to fire codes this is not acceptable. So my question is, "what is acceptable?"
My current set up has me in a 2 year old split entry home well insulated with Ice block foundation in an unfinished basement. The stove is located directly at the bottom of the stairs, open the front door look down the stairs and there she be, throwing all kinds of nice warm air up the stair well. This warms my upstairs living room/kitchen area just fine. I don't currently have any issue with the bedroom area but I can tell that it will be with the cooler temps. I have a small bit of wasted space in the hallway that I would like to put a register in, could fit a typical 8" x 14" grill there no problem. Since my basement is unfinished location downstairs wont be an issue, yet. But that I can plan around.
If I simply add ducting offset with a 90deg bend, will that be code compliant? I know the only real way to answer this is to get an inspector, or some over priced dude to come in a sign off, but where I live, that could take months and the answer I got would not leave me satisfied. Contractors here are horrible. Any experience doing this, any advice? Thanks in advance.

 

[madison]

Codes seem to vary from county to county, town to town. ??Maybe call your town building inspector?? Hopefully someone with the NFPA book will chime in.

 

[fishingpol]

Adding floor vents sounds great, people have been this for a long time. Older homes had gravity furnaces that let air up through the floor vents and cold air spills down stairs to a large grate over the old furnaces. One thing that would deter me from doing this is first, the obvious penetration between the floors that could assist a fire to spread faster to upper floors. Secondly, if something goes south with the stove, smoke could be drafted up into the floor vents and smoke could possibly be pulled away from a smoke detector possibly delaying or preventing its' warning. I know newer forced hot air systems have a fire damper at the supply outlets with a lead pellet that melts off shutting an accordian-like damper, reducing smoke and fire damage.

How about leaving the door open to the basement and using fans at the top of door frames to move air to the cooler rooms. That should not be violating any code.

 

[KB007]

According to the building code here (in Ontario), registers between floor and enclosed ceiling below must be fully enclosed in a metal duct. This is due to the space being considered an enclosed space between finished ceiling and the floor. If the ceiling below is unfinished and the joists are exposed, you can simply cut the hole for the register in the floor and that's all that's needed. We have 2 sets of registers that go from unfinished ceiling up to the main floor. When I say sets, there's on that lets the hot air up and one that lets the cold air down (X 2). Been running this way for 2 years and it's worked out really well.

You really should check with your local codes, but make sure you differentiate between finished ceiling and unfinished ceiling installations.

 

[shawneyboy]

Floor registers are great I have 3 in my house but contrary to popular believe, they like mine actually let cool air down to lower level, Heat will rise up your stairs, the cool air will fall and will be replaced by warm air. Not the other way around, the heat will like electricity take the path of least resistance, up the stairs and create a minor vaccuum and your floor registers will address that. A great way to get the heat to those rooms, but not in the manner you may think.

 

[SKIN052]

KB007, that's what I was looking for. I remember Nova Scotia had the same code, needed to be ducted from a finished ceiling to upstairs.

Madison, the town building inspector is a lady that sits in here chair at the town hall all day and collects money, she is also the secretary and has no experience at all. When I built my garage I had to go see her, she asked how big I was making it, I told her and she calculated how much the permit would cost. That's it that's all. No inspection, nothing.

fishingpol, door is wide open, like I said right now their is no problem, I can just foresee one coming. Valid concerns as well. I will be putting additional smoke alarms above the registers.

 

[SKIN052]

Floor registers are great I have 3 in my house but contrary to popular believe, they like mine actually let cool air down to lower level, Heat will rise up your stairs, the cool air will fall and will be replaced by warm air. Not the other way around, the heat will like electricity take the path of least resistance, up the stairs and create a minor vaccuum and your floor registers will address that. A great way to get the heat to those rooms, but not in the manner you may think.

You sir are indeed correct, I knew that but slipped my mind. Thanks for snapping me back into things. I actually advised a co-worker just the other day to blow cold air into his stove room instead of trying to suck it out, for those very reasons.

 

[jstellfox]

Floor registers are great I have 3 in my house but contrary to popular believe, they like mine actually let cool air down to lower level, Heat will rise up your stairs, the cool air will fall and will be replaced by warm air. Not the other way around, the heat will like electricity take the path of least resistance, up the stairs and create a minor vaccuum and your floor registers will address that. A great way to get the heat to those rooms, but not in the manner you may think.

Shawney, I have found the same exact thing. I have 3 rooms on my first floor, each with 1 floor register. I also leave the basement door open and the heat all comes up the stairwell and all 3 registers act as cold air returns to the basement. How long does it take after starting a fire for your 1st floor to heat up? It seems to be slow going for me....

 

[jstellfox]

would it be better to only leave open the register farthest away from the stairwell for cold air return or leave them all open??

 

[mtcates]

My brother has a wood stove in the basement and has the same issue. I told him to take the insulation out of the floor. R19 blocks the heat but with it gone it may be R2. He heats exclusively with wood from the basement stove so removing the insulation in his case would work very well. It may work for you.

 

[shawneyboy]

Floor registers are great I have 3 in my house but contrary to popular believe, they like mine actually let cool air down to lower level, Heat will rise up your stairs, the cool air will fall and will be replaced by warm air. Not the other way around, the heat will like electricity take the path of least resistance, up the stairs and create a minor vaccuum and your floor registers will address that. A great way to get the heat to those rooms, but not in the manner you may think.

Shawney, I have found the same exact thing. I have 3 rooms on my first floor, each with 1 floor register. I also leave the basement door open and the heat all comes up the stairwell and all 3 registers act as cold air returns to the basement. How long does it take after starting a fire for your 1st floor to heat up? It seems to be slow going for me....

Temp starts moving within an hour in my house, Slow and steady, but thats how I like it,

 

[shawneyboy]

would it be better to only leave open the register farthest away from the stairwell for cold air return or leave them all open??

My registers are fully open, all of them, the more circulation the better IMHO,

 

[SKIN052]

Thanks for the advice guys, looks like I shall be cutting a few holes in the floor soon.

 

[KB007]

I also added a simple register fan that sits on top of the register to bring air up and it helped in my case since the basement door is at the end of the house.

This year my issue will be to get some (not much) hot air down to the basement as I plan on burning the Regency insert in the main floor LR much more (likely 24X7) than the stove downstairs. Prolly just try the register fan blowing down at first, then if that don't work, I'll try sucking up the cold air over by the windows away from the insert and see if I can somehow get the warm air to go back downstairs. Just need enuf to keep the pipes from freezing.

 

[lukem]

I'm still working up the courage to cut some vents between my basement's unfinished ceiling (open joists) and the main floor on my ranch house.

I'm not sure of the number/location for the vents. The basement sits right in the center against the north wall. Open stairwell is on the west wall about 30' away. I'm getting bi-direction air movement on the stairwell right now, but it is having a tough time making it's way into the rest of the house since the stairwell is at the edge of the house.

Most of my heat gain to the upstairs seems to be through the floor, but I would like to try to moderate the temperatures between floors a little more my moving some air.

 

[ColdNH]

The previous owner of my house cut 2 openings in the basement, one almost directly above the stove and the other in the same room on the other end of the room. i leave them both open although i dont feel like much air travels up through them, like others have posted i feel it does help the draft be letting the cool air come down through them, the bulk of the heat rise happens in my stairwell, you can feel a blast of heat rushing up the stairs when the stove is cranking away.

 

[shawneyboy]

I'm still working up the courage to cut some vents between my basement's unfinished ceiling (open joists) and the main floor on my ranch house.

I'm not sure of the number/location for the vents. The basement sits right in the center against the north wall. Open stairwell is on the west wall about 30' away. I'm getting bi-direction air movement on the stairwell right now, but it is having a tough time making it's way into the rest of the house since the stairwell is at the edge of the house.

Most of my heat gain to the upstairs seems to be through the floor, but I would like to try to moderate the temperatures between floors a little more my moving some air.

If your house is a typical rectangle, my best guess would be 3 vents one center or so of house, and one on either end, as long as all vents lead to room with stove in it. In my house I have a similar set up, and by having the 3 vents it definitely helps to moderate the temps. Note downstairs can get pretty warm, but upstairs stays very comfy. We also use ceiling fans upstairs to move the air. Now this is what I have done, and past performance does not guarantee future returns, and blah blah blah, but..... If you have the ability to, and you make sure you meet code, and the like, it may serve you very well to cut some vents.

You will still feel the blast of heat at the top of the stairwell, but that heat will then move throughout the house much better with the vents in place.

 

[jstellfox]

do you have open floor joists or is there insulation in between the joists? curious whether you are getting some heat directly through the floor or just the vents and stairwell?

 

[SKIN052]

do you have open floor joists or is there insulation in between the joists? curious whether you are getting some heat directly through the floor or just the vents and stairwell?

Open right now, drop ceiling in the next year or so, no insulation in the joist. The floor above is all hardwood and laminate, they do not radiate heat well.

 

[KingNFM]

I'm new to this stuff but when I bought this house I found out that the owner prior to the owner before me used my wood burning stove as the sole source of heat. I have one register directly above the stove leading to my daughter's room, one about 5 feet to the right of that one leading to my master bedroom, and one about 10 feet before the stove in the ceiling leading to my son's room. Today is the first day that I've used the stove and they seem to be helping.

 

[SKIN052]

I'm new to this stuff but when I bought this house I found out that the owner prior to the owner before me used my wood burning stove as the sole source of heat. I have one register directly above the stove leading to my daughter's room, one about 5 feet to the right of that one leading to my master bedroom, and one about 10 feet before the stove in the ceiling leading to my son's room. Today is the first day that I've used the stove and they seem to be helping.

That used to be quite common many years ago, having a large grill directly above the stove. In fact my parents still have that set up. Problem is that most fire code will not allow it, don't quote me, but a few reasons I understand are, smoke could easily fill the room directly above the stove very quickly should something fail at the stove. Also, the pass through should not be direct to the basement or stove area, needs to be offset and enclosed in ducting if the ceiling that the stove is in is finished, apparently this avoids a direct path for fire if heaven forbid something should happen. Not to mention, if you daughter is anything like my two, just imagine the stuff they can drop down that register, directly on top of the stove

 

[KingNFM]

I'm new to this stuff but when I bought this house I found out that the owner prior to the owner before me used my wood burning stove as the sole source of heat. I have one register directly above the stove leading to my daughter's room, one about 5 feet to the right of that one leading to my master bedroom, and one about 10 feet before the stove in the ceiling leading to my son's room. Today is the first day that I've used the stove and they seem to be helping.

That used to be quite common many years ago, having a large grill directly above the stove. In fact my parents still have that set up. Problem is that most fire code will not allow it, don't quote me, but a few reasons I understand are, smoke could easily fill the room directly above the stove very quickly should something fail at the stove. Also, the pass through should not be direct to the basement or stove area, needs to be offset and enclosed in ducting if the ceiling that the stove is in is finished, apparently this avoids a direct path for fire if heaven forbid something should happen. Not to mention, if you daughter is anything like my two, just imagine the stuff they can drop down that register, directly on top of the stove

Yea, I could understand that. Thankfully my daughter is 18 and rarely home, and on top of that the register is under her dresser. There is about 5 or 6 inches of space between the register and the dresser so it will allow air to move....but the likely-hood that she'll somehow drop something down there is pretty slim....lol.

 

[SKIN052]

I don't trust them at 10 and 13, I will definitely not trust them at 18, lol.

 

[DoubleClutch]

If you're going to put vents between the floors, I would recommend doing it in such a way that you are "going with the flow" of natural convection currents in the house.

In other words, put the registers near external walls, where the air will be cooler, to allow the denser, cooler air to "drain" downstairs, to be replaced by the warmer air from the woodstove going up the stairwell or somewhere closer to the "core" of the house.

For an analogy (and a way to remember) just think about which way you want ceiling fans to run in the winter: They shouldn't blow the air down, but rather UP: That way, the air goes UP in the middle of the room, and DOWN on the outside/exterior walls of the room, where heat loss naturally cools the air anyway.

Otherwise, you're fighting the tide, because you're going to have a hard time "vacuuming" up the colder, denser air from the edges/exterior walls of the room -- all you're going to do is "short-circuit" the natural convection cycle and blow a bunch of hot air around in a small space in the middle of the room.

 

[lukem]

I'm still working up the courage to cut some vents between my basement's unfinished ceiling (open joists) and the main floor on my ranch house.

I'm not sure of the number/location for the vents. The basement sits right in the center against the north wall. Open stairwell is on the west wall about 30' away. I'm getting bi-direction air movement on the stairwell right now, but it is having a tough time making it's way into the rest of the house since the stairwell is at the edge of the house.

Most of my heat gain to the upstairs seems to be through the floor, but I would like to try to moderate the temperatures between floors a little more my moving some air.

If your house is a typical rectangle, my best guess would be 3 vents one center or so of house, and one on either end, as long as all vents lead to room with stove in it. In my house I have a similar set up, and by having the 3 vents it definitely helps to moderate the temps. Note downstairs can get pretty warm, but upstairs stays very comfy. We also use ceiling fans upstairs to move the air. Now this is what I have done, and past performance does not guarantee future returns, and blah blah blah, but..... If you have the ability to, and you make sure you meet code, and the like, it may serve you very well to cut some vents.

You will still feel the blast of heat at the top of the stairwell, but that heat will then move throughout the house much better with the vents in place.

Yep, rectangle. Basement doesn't have interior walls aside from a laundry room and bathroom so it's pretty well wide open. I was thinking one vent at opposite end of stairwell and one at same end as stairwell on the opposite side of the wall.