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fule pump sensor- then 'what'

Post in 'DIY and General non-hearth advice' started by ilmbg, Nov 19, 2007.

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  1. ilmbg

    ilmbg New Member

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    I had to have my fuel pump sensor replaced. The place told me that now the ' forgot what the name is' will need to be replaced in a few months- that once the fuel injector pump goes, the fuel injector automatically goes soon. Dodge 1998 diesel dually. 130,000 miles. Is this a norm? I think it is the fuel injector... I know it is expensive. How easy/hard is it to replace? My son in law is good with repairing cars- I don't know if this is something he can do- he is an engineer (I don't know 'what kind'). Thanks.

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  2. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    I'm not a dodge person, but I don't see why an injector should go. I don't think that model has unit injectors, just one central injection pump that times the injections and maybe a lift pump. The injection pump on my vw diesel (bosch) has several sensors and I don't think bosch usually sells them separate from the pump although I've heard a temp sensor can be purchased. You're not running biodiesel are you? I've heard moisture can mess up the temp sensor. Injection pumps are expensive. You need special tools to time the pump if you replace it yourself. I put in some injectors the other day (larger :) ) and they are easy to replace, but again, not cheap. It sounds like you have to either do a lot of reading or find a guy you trust.

    PS: Which fuel pump sensor are you talking about anyway?
  3. Corey

    Corey Minister of Fire

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    Fuel pump sensor? I've never heard of such a beast...they didn't happen to mention a muffler bearing or headlight fluid at the same time did they? Sounds like they might be buttering you up so they can get a nice Christmas bonus job.

    If the fuel pump itself does fail, I could see how it could send little bits of metal down the lines and to the injectors which might cause a secondary failure. But if you are using decent fuel with good lubricity and keeping the fuel filters / water separators clean, I would think it would last way longer than 130,000 miles. I can't say for a dodge, but the old chevy blazer I had would have been a pretty major deal for injector pump replacement - basically removing every thing from the top of the engine and pulling the intake manifold, then removing everything from the front of the engine to pull the timing chain and finally the injector pump.

    If your SIL is good with cars, he might be able to tackle it, it's somewhat similar to replacing a cam shaft - at least on the chevy. I don't know if being an engineer helps - some are spectacular, but I work with one who destroyed his lawn mower trying to change a spark plug.
  4. ilmbg

    ilmbg New Member

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    Wyoming/Montana border very dry, very cold
    Fuel pump pressure sensor?... I will have to find the reciept and get the exact name/number. I am just a bit concerned that when these 'pressure sensors' go out, that the next step seems to be the fuel injector going out. I am having no problems- I was just getting the truck ready for winter. I wanted the radiator flushed also. The 'fuel pump pressure sensor' was not even broke- I asked to have the fuel filter replaced, as I thought it was supposed to be done every 25,000 miles or so. When he took out the old one, he said he broke the pressure/sensor. He said that means that it was getting bad that it broke so easily- I talked to the owner of the place- they said that it must have been partially bad- that they frequently broke when getting bad. I think if they broke it, no matter what shape it supposedly was in, then they should have replaced it at their own cost!! Between a valve job, anything that was needed for a 'tune-up' on a diesel, and then with the pressure sensor thing, I ended up with a bill of $690.00!!! 2.75 hours for tune-up, radiator flush, new sensor put in. This is supposed to be the best/trusted place here- I think I was scammed- I talked to several people in other cities (Dodge mechanics), and they all said that a person would have to try pretty hard to break one of these. I would like to find out for sure, and be able to write BBB, or someplace...wanting to put it in public what they did if they were crooked. I'll find the name/numbers of the part. Thanks all. (I know as soon as they see a female coming in- OH- I'll screw her and get lots'a money!!
  5. sedanman

    sedanman New Member

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    The component at fault is likely the "lift pump". It is a small fuel pump that provides a steady supply of fuel to the injector pump. Depending on the model year of the vehicle the injector pump may be a Bosch VP-44. If it is a VP-44 then the injector pump is lubricated only by the fuel it pumps and nothing else. VP-44's don't like working overtime as fuel pumps and injector pumps. They suffer from lack of lubrication when starved for fuel. Your VP-44 may be on it's way to an early end. BTW, your truck would technically have to be a 98 1/2 24 valve to have a VP-44. The best way to prevent this failure is to replace the lift pump with a F.A.S.S Fuel Air Seperator System, for about $600. This seemingly steep investment will never fail to keep the VP-44 fed and save the injector pump. The best price I've seen for new VP-44's is about $1,400.00 plus installation. The Cummins ISB 5.9 liter engine is known to live in excess of a million miles if properly cared for so don't let anyone tell you that your truck is not worth fixing.
  6. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    I think the best thing for you to do is to find a DIESEL mechanic that you can trust.
    I don't know the best way to do that though.
    Maybe get on a bulletin board like this for Dodge/Cummins and ask if there's any good mechanics in your area.
  7. ilmbg

    ilmbg New Member

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    Loc:
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    LONG POST!! There are only two in my area- this is a town of 5,000. The 2nd guy: I took my truck/horse trailer in and told him the brakes on the trailer were not working. I could not feel them engage, and the box in the cab was not lighting up. Now, I know my truck/trailer- I am the only person who drives it, I drive (hauling horses to shows, going to winter home in Texas- all over- about 12,000 pounds , 1,500-2,000 miles at a time frequently- I KNOW MY TRUCK/TRAILER!!! Left rig with him- came back and he says 'it works great- no problem'. I thought 'ok', and left. As soon as I was pulling out of his place, I still knew it was not working... I came back a week or so later as I was leaving town with a horse in the trailer. Told him to get in with me, and we took a short drive. He was still adamant that they were working- he says 'can't you feel them- I can'. No, I could not. Took horse where I was going- about 100 miles. Was very careful. When I got to where I was going, and I was walking around the trailer to get the horse out, I saw loose/broken wires by the wheels! Crawed under as much as I am able, and saw broken brake wires! Working, eh? Took the trailer by his place (big car/truck mechanic place- for here- about 6 bays). Anyway, dragged him around the trailer and showed him the wires- he says- 'you just said the box in the truck wasn't working- you- that's what I looked at, and the lights were on '. BU(^%S#$T!! He was in the truck/trailer with me and still said they were working!! How in H could he come up with something like that?? Then when I asked when he could fix the brake wires, he says 'oh, at least 3-4 weeks- I'm really busy'. He was acting like such an ass- like I was the one that didn't tell him that the brakes were not working. That is what we have in this town to deal with. He was defineately acting like an ass- like I did'nt have a clue in the world what I was talking about- is it because I am female?? Anyway, a couple days later, trailer in yard, chipmonks getting into wheelwells. The dog- a miniature dachshund is a hunter- trying with all her might to get chipmonks- watched her as she grabbed the brake wires in her mouth and gave some mighty pulls-(9 pound dog). She was the one that pulled apart the wires! (but as far as the as$^%#hole guy was concerned, the brakes were working fine!!). As I said, I am not having any problems with the truck- just originally wanted to know if the fuel injectors go bad routinely after a lift pump goes bad... And sedanman, you are right, it was the lift pump that the guy broke when he was putting a new fuel filter in. No wonder I don't trust people - when a person is treated as I have been by the two mechanics that we have in our town, I don't trust anybody!! It is sorta like a 1. Car salesman. 2. Real estate agent. 3. Swimming pool salesman. 4. Ex-husband. Thanks for the vent! Horse trailer is now sitting outside the fenced yard, where dog can't get at it!!
  8. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    The only thing is there're only 2 mechanics so you can't really burn your bridges totally.
  9. Corey

    Corey Minister of Fire

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    If it makes you feel any better, almost every time I go to a mechanic, I feel like I am getting a run around or some BS story, too. I don't go very often - I grew up working on cars, have always had some hot rod in the garage, and continue to do all of the work I can. But back in college, sometimes I just didn't have the space/tools to do the job, or even now if it is something like tire mounting or alignment - I just don't have the equipment to do that.

    But even so, I've taken a car in to get an alignment and they are like "We can't align it, your tie rod ends are loose" [then he proceeds to go to the the car on the rack and wiggle one wheel back and forth - of course the other one is also moving in unison but he has me positioned so I'm not supposed to see it] I tell him - "I just put new tie rod ends on the car, that is why I am getting it aligned" This dumbfounded look comes over his face and as he starts to look a little closer I think he can see that the tie rod ends do look pretty new compared to the dust/dirt on the rest of the suspension. This fool is just reading from the script - He tries to say "Well, uh...they still seem loose, look at it move" But by that time, I'm like "Get my car off the rack now, I'm going somewhere else" Then he is conceding that they "might be able to align it" But I'm like "Get it down now!"

    Hopefully you will find a decent mechanic who isn't looking to take you for too big of a ride.
  10. struggle

    struggle Minister of Fire

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    Here is a place to get your answers on the VP44 http://dieseltruckresource.com/

    Like wa smentioned once the lift pump goes the VP44 will still suck enough fuel to keep the engine running and then shortly take a dump later down the road.

    The best course of action if running no mods on the engine is to install a fuel pressure guage or warning light set up. If you poke around in the site I mentioned you fill your mind with options.

    I have a 2004.5 cummnins and love it but it uses comon rail injection method and they generally will just die after the lift pump goes south so less damage can be done as apposed to the VP44.

    I do wish my 04.5 sounded like a 98 though.
  11. MrWinkey

    MrWinkey New Member

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    www.tdr1.com

    That's the best website around hands down for dodge turbo diesel.

    What happens is the lift pump quits working. The high pressure injection pump is lubed by the fuel so it eats itself alive.

    I would look on that website or get a membership to it....you really can save some $$ and most of the other members will take the time to walk you through stuff.

    I can not even count how many times it's saved my bacon!
  12. Codeman812

    Codeman812 New Member

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    There is actually a muffler bearing on some cars. Not really a bearing in the real sense, but it is called that. I have been waiting to tell someone they need to replace it but alas I have yet to sell one to a customer. LOL

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