1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Garage: Rebuild or replace

Post in 'DIY and General non-hearth advice' started by begreen, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    46,030
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    We have a cheaply built, but still standing after many decades, 1 car garage that has a tacked on, side shed. It's fairly old and in need of a new roof. Trying to decide what to do to make it a more useful shelter and not a crap collector.

    plan a: change roofline to raise shed roof line to 8ft so that a vehicle can be parked underneath. Pour concrete floor to replace wooden plank floor (great place for rats to hide). Replace side hinged garage doors with 8' high roll-up.

    plan b: tear present garage down, pour slab and replace with a 24x30 2 car steel garage

    If plan b, has anyone had experience with this company?
    http://www.carportempire.com/

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. bfunk13

    bfunk13 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    734
    Loc:
    Wyoming
    Have you figured a ballpark price for the two options?
    Seems to me plan A will not be that cheap, and you will still be left wishing you went brand new. Might be worth the extra money to go with B.
  3. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    My friend has a steel Garage and loves it ! He said it went up fast and is strong I helped him insulate it last year and that was easy too. The downside I noticed is when it rains it is very very loud inside.

    Pete
  4. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    Come to think of it Dennis has one too you might wanna shoot him some questions if you have any! His is very nice indeed.

    RePete
  5. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    46,030
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    bfunk, that is my thought also. I am leaning toward a teardown replacement with a metal building. The noise will be abated somewhat by ceiling insulation in the shop. I could care less about the garage section. You should hear how loud it gets in the greenhouse during a good pour.

    Can you tell me more about the insulating process? The bldgs. I am looking at have posts on 5 ft. centers. Did you build a stud wall between then insulate?
  6. semipro

    semipro Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,257
    Loc:
    SW Virginia
    Seems likes this might be a great application for spray-in foam...if you can afford it.

    We like the noise. One of our favorite places to hang out in a rainstorm is in our shed with the rain hitting the metal roof. I don't think I'd want it on my bedroom though. ;)
    ScotO likes this.
  7. Mr A

    Mr A Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    597
    Loc:
    N. California
    Both plan A & B require a new slab, correct? That being the case, tear down is required for both. With the loose labor market, the difference will be in the materials cost. I would think lumber to be cheaper being close to the source.
  8. woodsmaster

    woodsmaster Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,426
    Loc:
    N.W. Ohio
    If your hireing the work out I'd go new. I doubt it will cost a lot more than repairing the old but you could get quotes both ways to see. Id build walls like you said and insulate with what you desire. foam would be my first choice
    with with wet blown cellulose second and fiberglass third, but cheapist which may be ok for a garage. Get free estimates from at least 3 contractors. If one comes in way low there probably forgetting somthing and may cut corners to try and save there but. Good luck !
  9. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    No his metal garage has large metal studs 4ft apart that we used styrofoam panels between. We put three sheets of r-10 stacked then we had about 1/4 " left to the outside of the studs. After the insulation we used the cheapest panel he could find to panel inside the garage. His garage is heated now with an old vented propane furnace.

    Pete
  10. woodsmaster

    woodsmaster Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,426
    Loc:
    N.W. Ohio
    You could foam the steel without the framing, but then it's harder to hang stuff or finish the walls.
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    46,030
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    My thought at first was for going cheap by removing the flooring, set rebar in place and pour in a floor using the perimeter block as a form. But I have to admit I can be persuaded to just replace the thing. Not sure if our lumber is any cheaper out here. Haven't checked recently. If so, I think I'm going to go a bit larger, 30x30, so that I can have a small shop and garden tool, mower storage at the end.
    bfunk13 likes this.
  12. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    Pole building, steel sides and roof. tin the inside walls as well, insulate with spray foam. you will thank yourself immensely if you do it this way. I wish I could tear my barn down and start over, that's what I would do the second time around.
  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    46,030
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Kind of like this? http://www.permabilt.com/index.php
    Will be calling them soon.
  14. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    Exactly! They have some really nice looking buildings, if I could do it again that's what I would do. We are considering getting a couple of people together and buying a small plot of ground (couple of acres) to raise our own food on. If and when we do that, I will be going the steel building route.
  15. Dune

    Dune Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2008
    Messages:
    2,765
    Loc:
    Commonwealth Of Massachussetts
    I would at least try to think about ways to use this as a chance to implement some type of solar collector. If the garage is too far from the house or green house then perhaps orient the building to provide the ultimate amount of photo-voltiac panel as possible. Perhaps a shed roof instead of gable for availability of the entire roof for panel area.

    If one were to utilize solar thremal collectors, keep in mind that the south facing wall is also usable collector space, and more effective than the roof in the winter.

    For a garage, I would likely install a radiant slab, since this type of heat in a garage is the most cost effective as well as comfortable.

    Even if active solar is not an option, passive solar for the garage itself would provide exdcellent benefits for very little extra initial expence.

    Finaly, check into micro-wind turbines. Tremendous advances have been made recently; litteraly orders of magnitude of increased output have been acomplished by a new jappanese design,

    On the subject of tremendous advances, photovoltiac panels will soon again fall in price due to a recently invented process which enables panels to be manufactured using only ten percent of the present amount of silicon and virtualy no waste.

    Forthought in building placement, height, design etc. could affect future possibility of viable wind turbine or panel mounting.
  16. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Depending on how much you do, it can be pretty cheap to start new. I have a 30 x 40 (no slab) that was bought and built for about 12k. They did it in about a day and I built walls (and stalls for horses, but have since tore the stalls back out).

    If I had it to do again, it would be to go bigger and put closer to the house (100 yards away).

    Attached Files:

  17. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    46,030
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    We already have a 15 panel solar array in the field. The garage location is less ideal due to trees on the neighboring property, but if panels get cheap enough I might consider adding at some point. I don't intend to heat the garage except for a small shop area which would be around 12 x 16. Will be calling them about this special:

    http://www.permabilt.com/special.php 17517 installed and that includes the slab.
  18. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Thats a pretty good price to include all the features in the link.. A very good price actually.


    4" concrete floor with fibermix reinforcement and zip-strip crack control

    1) 10'x12' raised panel steel roll up door

    1) 9'x9' raised panel steel roll up door

    3'x6'8" Permabilt door with self-closing hinges and stainless steel lockset

    10' continuous flow ridge vent

    2'x36' polycarbonate eavelight

    2" Fiberglass vapor barrier roof insulation

    All steel fastened with screw fasteners

    18 Sidewall and Trim colors, 45 year warranty

    Price includes engineered plans, permit service (we obtain permit customer pays fees),

    guaranteed craftsmanship

    Price is predicated on a flat, level and accessible site

    Price is predicated on 85 MPH exposure B wind load and 25 lb. snow load

    Price does not include any permit fees or sensitive area reviews if required

    Built price is good for Western Washington / Travel charges for some areas

    The monthly special is not valid with any other offers or promotions
  19. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    46,030
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Dune, the wind turbine collar is very interesting, but we are not in a good location to harvest. Can you repost the info in the green room?
  20. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    6,842
    Loc:
    Salem NH
    I would think twice about a metal building. My friend had a metal shed for his motorcycle. He had to get rid of it because the dampness was rusting out his bike. He got a wooden shed and now has no moisture problems!!

    Also where are the pics of your existing garage for our comments?
  21. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    46,030
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Was the roof insulated? If not my understanding is that it will sweat.
  22. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    6,842
    Loc:
    Salem NH
    Hi Begreen

    I really do not think there was any insulation. That is why there was condensation and sweating!

    So do you have some pics?

    Does it look like this garage?

    Click to enlarge and see Red arrow

    Attached Files:

  23. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    46,030
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Ha! LOL The building is standing and although funky, it's lines are true.
  24. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,800
    Loc:
    base of Mt. Rainier on the wet side, WA
    I am just finishing up a 30x60' polebarn garage building. I had three bids and they were well into the 40s and 50s to finish what I have built for abut 25000$.

    I chose pole construction for cost and then used a normal composition 4:12 roof with 2 foot overhangs to match the house. Since I built it I know it was done right and had chances to do special things like renegade plumbing into the slab. Insulate the slab and put in 1800 LF of pex floor heating pipes, more and better rebar, proper fasteners, etc.

    The companies can fling a building up quickly but their assembly line procedures ensure a barely code compliant build. I wanted better than barely code compliant.

    I tore down a 12 x20' old barn from 1963 and now have a slab for washing cars. The old barn had roof sheathing with concrete stains on them. They were the old form boards for the house!

    There is no reason at all that a building has to be torn down to pour concrete inside. I have done two large indoor pours in my home as part of remodels and the guys just use a line pump to bring the mud in. Actually kind of nice since the lighting is overhead and the weather controlled.

    Attached Files:

  25. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    46,030
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    If we pour and stay with the current building we are constrained to a one car garage and a carport.

Share This Page