I am building our new house right now. After my 2 years of research, I decided to purchase the Garn. It is here!! but I have a question about backup system. Since I am building new construction I do not have any old heating unit to backup my Garn. Do you have any suggestion? I may crazy but can I install LP hwh tank and heat the Garn? or Is it possible to heat with LP tank less HWH? As long as my new house and Garn wont freeze I am happy with it.
Garn and Backup plan
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First of all congratulations.
You must have a fair amount of demand to justify a Garn. I am backing up/topping up with a Condensing LP Boiler, the Garn will be first on line, Propane kicking in as needed. I guess you are going with underfloor radiant heat, I am using radiators, and a glycol mix as antifreeze protection.
Is the Garn in a separate building? Most are. I am going to insulate it, 2x6 on 24 centers, 1 inch XPS sheathing, insulated concrete slab and whatever I can pack in above. A small electric heater should keep it from freezing, the Garns take a long time to cool down if you are not drawing heat.
Garn also supply electrical elements to fit in the Garn as a back up antifreeze.
You must have a fair amount of demand to justify a Garn. I am backing up/topping up with a Condensing LP Boiler, the Garn will be first on line, Propane kicking in as needed. I guess you are going with underfloor radiant heat, I am using radiators, and a glycol mix as antifreeze protection.
Is the Garn in a separate building? Most are. I am going to insulate it, 2x6 on 24 centers, 1 inch XPS sheathing, insulated concrete slab and whatever I can pack in above. A small electric heater should keep it from freezing, the Garns take a long time to cool down if you are not drawing heat.
Garn also supply electrical elements to fit in the Garn as a back up antifreeze.
you can buy a lot of electricity for the cost of a boiler and then add some interest on the investment also, I would for sure put in the largest elements they sell. If its for power out, you would need to fire up the generator anyway.
Thank you for such a quick response. well I do not want to use electric ...for me it did not make sense to heat Garn with it. and Condensing LP boiler...too expense. but I did not know I could use antifreeze in Garn. Did not affect or cause any problem when mix with chemical Garn ask us to put in.
How does putting in antifreeze, give you back up. Ya the boiler won't freeze just the rest of the house. You can treat that water for a hundred bucks! Check the math on the electric it's twice the cost of gas and will pay back 10 times faster - 500 -1,000 for electric upgrade and 7,500 to 10,000 for boiler installed. Whole bunch of money just setting there doing nothing. This is for the serious wood burner, can't imagine spending the money on a garn and not being serious. My last point you aren't out much cost with electric and can always add in the gas boiler later.
Welcome and congratulations on your Garn 2G!!
I'm into my second heating season with a Garn as primary heat. I did the installation myself, but before that, and as you are, I agonized over the possibility of freezing up the Garn and other things that, as they turned out, are non-issues in real life.
While yes it is true that you should have a "back-up", and yes, I already had an existing boiler to serve as back-up and you need to buy one, fact is, you won't use it much. When you do use it, it shouldn't be to keep your Garn warm, it will be to keep your house warm.
So you need to install a boiler or furnace or stove or whatever that will keep you warm when the Garn isn't running. I'll leave the details to you. What I have found is that there are two occasions when the Garn isn't running. Long term and short term.
If it's short or long term during the warmer season, the Garn just sits there idle while the backup is carrying the load. Short term during colder months, just keeping the Garn water circulating at a trickle will provide freeze protection and use little energy while the backup is running. For long term during cold season, drain the Garn and use your backup.
Good luck!!
Rick
I'm into my second heating season with a Garn as primary heat. I did the installation myself, but before that, and as you are, I agonized over the possibility of freezing up the Garn and other things that, as they turned out, are non-issues in real life.
While yes it is true that you should have a "back-up", and yes, I already had an existing boiler to serve as back-up and you need to buy one, fact is, you won't use it much. When you do use it, it shouldn't be to keep your Garn warm, it will be to keep your house warm.
So you need to install a boiler or furnace or stove or whatever that will keep you warm when the Garn isn't running. I'll leave the details to you. What I have found is that there are two occasions when the Garn isn't running. Long term and short term.
If it's short or long term during the warmer season, the Garn just sits there idle while the backup is carrying the load. Short term during colder months, just keeping the Garn water circulating at a trickle will provide freeze protection and use little energy while the backup is running. For long term during cold season, drain the Garn and use your backup.
Good luck!!
Rick
I have a Garn 1500, been running since Nov. Very happy. I don't have the electric either. I don't think Dectra is happy with antifreeze inside the Garn....but I may be wrong. I have water. Truth is, assuming it is insulated at all, I think it would takes more than 2 weeks for the Garn to get cold enough to freeze. Piping may be a different story, so my plan is to have a way to force circulators to move water. Of course, if I can run circulators, then I can also burn a fire. My thinking is if I should ever go away in the winter for an extended period. I have a oil boiler which would keep the house warm and I'd fire the Garn up hot before I left, and turn on the circs with a timer every so often, to prevent the freezing.
Heaterman here, a prof Garn rep/installer, has told the story of a guy doing this very thing. Fired up to 180 or 190 or so, and 11 days later returned home to the Garn at about 115. Not to bad!
I'll have a generator setup (eventually) and will be able to get through extended power outages that way.
Heaterman here, a prof Garn rep/installer, has told the story of a guy doing this very thing. Fired up to 180 or 190 or so, and 11 days later returned home to the Garn at about 115. Not to bad!
I'll have a generator setup (eventually) and will be able to get through extended power outages that way.
You can not use antifreeze in the Garn I think, anyway it would cost an arm and a leg.
The Glycol mix is for the house.
You would have to do the calculations as to the heat loss from a well insulated Garn in a well insulated Garn Barn would be. I am sure you would be talking weeks before it became a possible issue. Filling one up would take several days with my well!
You can use electric as freeze protection, Garn sell the bits, or you could have a small heater in the Garn Barn to keep everything above freezing, or I guess you can back feed through the heat exchanger from a back up boiler, not sure if I have come across anybody who has done that?
Or maybe add a solar HW panel or two?
Or a friendly neighbour come in and light a fire every week or so.
The Glycol mix is for the house.
You would have to do the calculations as to the heat loss from a well insulated Garn in a well insulated Garn Barn would be. I am sure you would be talking weeks before it became a possible issue. Filling one up would take several days with my well!
You can use electric as freeze protection, Garn sell the bits, or you could have a small heater in the Garn Barn to keep everything above freezing, or I guess you can back feed through the heat exchanger from a back up boiler, not sure if I have come across anybody who has done that?
Or maybe add a solar HW panel or two?
Or a friendly neighbour come in and light a fire every week or so.
Like some of the others I have a propane backup boiler. One in the house, one in the workshop. When I leave for an extended period of time I plan to have the circulator on a timer to cycle a set period of time to back feed and heat the water from the heat exchanger in the house to keep the lines from freezing. It should not take much heat to do this with a well insulated system.
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