would be benificial to install a garn or a smaller gasser with 1500 gallon starage what would be the diffrence?
garn or not to garn
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Copied this in from the other thread you asked it in. The exhaust temp of most gassers (when in gasification mode) is somewhere in the 250-500* range depending if you have turbulators, the dryness of the wood, air settings...
I would take efficiency numbers with a grain of salt. There is not a specific standard of testing, so the results are not directly comparable.
The real differences are in that a gasser with storage can heat zones directly or from storage where as the Garn has to bring the full volume of water up to a usable temp. However, the Garn doesn't require complicated controls and piping to integrate it into your system. A lot of people go with gassers because they want to locate them indoors or in a small shed instead of an out building and if you build your own storage or convert a propane tank, then the overall cost could be less. If you have the budget and a building for the Garn, I wouldn't hesitate on getting one, but there are a lot of options out there that will heat equally as well...
To let you know what I got going on is .. Im planning my own design with of course some help from design that are already on the market .. this morning i located myself a 3000 gal tank can pick it up for about 5 bills, however I allready got a 900 gallon tank prob. os its not big enough to fit the garn like componits inside
so do i save the money and use the 900 gallon ? I also have 2 275 gallon and 1 500 gallon tanks that would give me a 1000 gallon of storage on top of what i get from the 900 gal tank
Have you seen Garnification's boiler he built? https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/11262/
wow , great pics .yes I have but I didnt see those pics until now .. Im going to have to study them ones too. I love the Garn design and already have 90% of the componints still need the tank and the blower .. Im just a little nervous about going so large and finding out something isnt going to work
I went back and looked the pics over and read the post one thing that I didnt see answered , maybe you know the answer to ..someone asked about a air nozzel to the secondary burn chamber .. I wasnt aware , does it even have one ? or is it just have the 2 air port around the door 1 at 6 oclock and 1 at 12
I may be wrong, but I would think that the Garn type design (ie long heat exchange tubes) is probably a more forgiving design than trying to get a gasser right. I am not sure about the air ports, but you could PM Garnification (not sure if he is still on here) or PM one of the guys that owns a Garn. Hopefully they will be able to tell you.
There is no "nozzle" per se in the GARN. There are two air feed ports in the air collar, and the 6" chamber lined with refrac is where the secondary combustion takes place.
I recieved my Garn 1500 last spring and have just now got it up and running. So far I could not be happier. Like everyone else I struggled with which wood boiler to buy and finally bite the bullet and decided on the Garn. I have the only Garn in the county and living in the N.C. mountains their are a lot of out door wood boilers and wood stoves. Everyone, and I mean everyone who has seen the Garn in operation has been very impressed. It will do as advertised. Burns great, little to no smoke, great storage of heat, excellent storage for my solar panels: I am very pleased with the Garn. You will be too!
In response to the lead post, not an easy or exact answer. I don't think the Garn storage does much good if the need is for high temperature output, like 160F and above for baseboard or unit heaters. A gasifier with buffer storage may excel here. I also think a well insulated tank separate from a gasifier would be more efficient that an insulated Garn in a lower heat demand situation. I have a feeling, not yet based on data, that standby heat loss from a Garn is quite high, as well as heat loss towards the end of a burn. At the same time the Garn would do generally well in a demand situation below 130-140F, and certainly is a convenient, all-in-one approach. If there ever is a thought about moving a system, I would look more at a gasifier and separate storage (I moved my Tarm and 1000 gal tank this summer to my new shop, quite easy). I'm sure there are other factors, pro and con for each setup, but these are a few thoughts.
If I had the choice I'd want the storage inside to limit my standby losses and the boiler as close to the wood pile as I could get it.
jebatty said:
RE: standby heat loss from a Garn. That is entirely up to the installer as a Garn must be field insulated. My measurements have proven that it takes less insulation than one would think provided it is sealed up fairly well. A local owner left for 10 days the end of February last winter and wondered asked if he should drain his Garn while gone. It sits in an insulated but unheated lean-to on the side of an unheated pole building. The insulation on his 2000 was nothing more than the basic kit that I sell and i told him to simply run it up to 180* and leave it as I felt it would be a good opportunity to monitor the performance of my kit. They left on a Thursday evening and returned on Sunday of the next week or roughly 10 days later. The water temp in the Garn was down to around 105* IIRC. That's not bad performance.
As to a stand alone boiler with storage vs a Garn with integral storage........I am struggling to see what practical difference there would be in servicing a high temp system. In either case the high temp required on certain systems reduces the benefit of storage. Only in the USA do we design and build retarded heating systems that require 180*+ water temps. Far better to design or modify an existing system to use 150* or less when it comes to efficiency.
Not only in the USA Heaterman..... Sad to say there are plenty of systems that are also poorly designed & built this side of the 49th as well & that is a shame. Houses too for that matter. There is also no good reason for it to be that way. We (north americans) need to pay more attention to how they do an entire home heating system in Germany (as well as others countries) & put those lessons into practice when it comes to total system efficiency. Total home efficiency as well. Sad to say but we are slow to learn the easy lessons of others in these areas.
I can talk to the average north american for hours about total system efficiency & 90+% of them just dont get it, not one bit. I usually feel like my time would have just as well spent in trying to teach a fish to walk. I talk to virtually any northern european about the same topic & within 2-3 minutes they lead the conversation as they have so many ideas on how we can improve here in north america. Thats the knowledge gap we need to work much harder in closing.
Sorry for the rant, tired (no break in my schedule since early august) & I have to try to teach another fish to walk tomorrow. Here is hoping they are not in the 90+% group.
I can talk to the average north american for hours about total system efficiency & 90+% of them just dont get it, not one bit. I usually feel like my time would have just as well spent in trying to teach a fish to walk. I talk to virtually any northern european about the same topic & within 2-3 minutes they lead the conversation as they have so many ideas on how we can improve here in north america. Thats the knowledge gap we need to work much harder in closing.
Sorry for the rant, tired (no break in my schedule since early august) & I have to try to teach another fish to walk tomorrow. Here is hoping they are not in the 90+% group.
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