Gassifier setups in mass?

[Mass Heat]

Been doing a ton of research on boiler options. Don't have any space in the basement, so I've been looking at outdoor gasifiers or an indoor setup in a shed. Currently burning 1200 gallons of oil and can't take it anymore. Any advice would be appreciated. I plan on buying some hard wood and mixing in free pine. Boiler effIciency and longevity is a concern. If anyone in Southern Mass or the surrounding area has a setup working well for them, I'd like to hear about it or possibly get an opportunity to see it. Home is 2500 sq ft cape with a breezeway and master bedroom above a 2 car garage. Currently considering a Portage and Main Optimizer or a CB 2400. Not sure if a Garn, EKO or equivalent with or without a storage tank would be an option for me in Mass? For the record, this is my 1st post and I've done a ton of reading on here before posting.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Been doing a ton of research on boiler options. Don't have any space in the basement, so I've been looking at outdoor gasifiers or an indoor setup in a shed. Currently burning 1200 gallons of oil and can't take it anymore. Any advice would be appreciated. I plan on buying some hard wood and mixing in free pine. Boiler effIciency and longevity is a concern. If anyone in Southern Mass or the surrounding area has a setup working well for them, I'd like to hear about it or possibly get an opportunity to see it. Home is 2500 sq ft cape with a breezeway and master bedroom above a 2 car garage. Currently considering a Portage and Main Optimizer or a CB 2400. Not sure if a Garn, EKO or equivalent with or without a storage tank would be an option for me in Mass? For the record, this is my 1st post and I've done a ton of reading on here before posting.

Welcome to Hearth. I'm in Wisconsin so I can't offer any worthwhile advice for Mass. The others will chime in soon & sort what is required for your state. Good luck, Randy

 

[Chris Hoskin]

MA is one of the few states that requires an ASME stamp on all pressurized boilers. Because most are UN-pressurized, so don't require the ASME certification, an outdoor boiler may be your best choice. That being said, if you did have room in the basement I would be urging you to consider an indoor unit. I love the idea of a wood shed/boiler room.

Given your location and your relatively small heat load, I think about any outdoor boiler is going to be oversized so you will want to plan on having thermal storage at some point if not right away.

The one exception I can think of is the Econoburn 100,000btu outdoor unit. My understanding, though, is that this is a closed and pressurized boiler. Not sure if it is available with an ASME stamp.

good luck with the search, keep us posted.

 

[willworkforwood]

First question for you would be, have you heated with wood in the past? Reason for the question is to make sure you're aware of just how much work is involved processing enough firewood for an entire heating season (and also staying a couple years ahead). Next would be the cost-benefit analysis. Start with a 20K total boiler cost. Then figure $120/cord log-length hardwood, and the generally accepted replacement figure of 150 gallons of oil/cord hardwood. If you don't like those numbers, they can be improved on both sides. Boilers can be done for (quite a bit) less than 20K, particularly if you can DIY some or all of the install. But be sure to consider everything, because the cost usually goes WAY beyond just the dealer price of the boiler (underground lines, boiler room, piping, controls, etc.). And, on the firewood side, you can do extra work (i.e. spend more time) acquiring free firewood, as many of use do. And in your calculations, also include things you need but don't already have, such a wood hauler, chainsaw, and wood shed. It really all comes down to how long will it take to pay off your investment, and start making a "profit"

 

[hoogie]

Check out Empyer pro200 by Profab...outdoor woodburner gassier...i've had mine for 3yrs now and love it...couple other people on this site have one and got nothin but good to say about em also...just my 2 cents worth

 

[Mass Heat]

Checked the Mass website and they specifically list the approved units. Noticed that some of the outdoor units Im interested in are listed, such as CB 2400, P&M Optimizer 250, the Empyre and even the Garn 1500. Anyone know why the dedicated indoor units aren't listed? I'd like to run a indoor unit in a insulated wood shed and setup a storage tank in my basement. The Garn seems like a great option but cost up front is big time. I was quoted 16 to 17k for a Garn 1500 delivered. I'd prefer to get something going to help immediately and add storage later on. Any ideas? What would you do if you had start over again and had to deal with Mass regulations?

 

[711mhw]

Checked the Mass website and they specifically list the approved units. Noticed that some of the outdoor units Im interested in are listed, such as CB 2400, P&M Optimizer 250, the Empyre and even the Garn 1500. Anyone know why the dedicated indoor units aren't listed? I'd like to run a indoor unit in a insulated wood shed and setup a storage tank in my basement. The Garn seems like a great option but cost up front is big time. I was quoted 16 to 17k for a Garn 1500 delivered. I'd prefer to get something going to help immediately and add storage later on. Any ideas? What would you do if you had start over again and had to deal with Mass regulations?

I thought that by being inside it side-stepped some of the epa regs., not positive on that. I did remember seeing that the AHS sales guy posted that they now can get the "UL" stamp, but I think that the "asme" was all-ways available on their boilers as an option.

 

[kopeck]

Checked the Mass website and they specifically list the approved units. Noticed that some of the outdoor units Im interested in are listed, such as CB 2400, P&M Optimizer 250, the Empyre and even the Garn 1500. Anyone know why the dedicated indoor units aren't listed? I'd like to run a indoor unit in a insulated wood shed and setup a storage tank in my basement. The Garn seems like a great option but cost up front is big time. I was quoted 16 to 17k for a Garn 1500 delivered. I'd prefer to get something going to help immediately and add storage later on. Any ideas? What would you do if you had start over again and had to deal with Mass regulations?

I think Tarm Sales Guy answered your question, most of the indoor units are pressurized and there for would require an ASME stamp, which they don't have.

K

 

[ewdudley]

Don't forget the 'European Open' elevated expansion cistern option.

In the case of a detached boiler shed you'd need to get the tank a few feet higher than any part of the system in the house (or anywhere else for that matter), so maybe something like a chimney chase big enough to enclose both a flue and a tank at the top, or a tank in the attic of the building if is tall enough.

In any event in Massachusetts the raised open tank gives you essentially a closed system and eliminates the need for an ASME boiler.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/40555/


--ewd

 

[EffectaBoilerUser (USA)]

I would second Dudleys suggestion of an open system which uses an open style (no bladder) expansion tank located above the boiler. A pressurized boiler that is not ASME certified/rated (as are most high efficiency European wood gasification boilers) can be operated as an open system. I know of a location in Alpena MI where the mechanical inspector required this type of set up with an EKO40 boiler. I know for a fact that this has been common practice in Sweden for many years.

In Michigan it is also a requirement that all "closed systems" must have a boiler that is ASME rated/certified. However, it is also a fact that most who burn wood live in the country and thus do not tell anyone when they are installing the boiler and thus do not pull a permit and get the government officials involved (basically the "its my property and I'll do what I want with it" attitude). Regarding the UL/CSA certification, this is very important especially if the boiler will be placed in a house/garage. I recently worked with a person who installed an effecta lambda 35 boiler in a new garage and was requested to email a copy of the boiler UL/CSA certification sticker to their insurance agent. From my experience, it seems like insurance companies are much more concerned about the UL/CSA certification of an indoor wood gasification boiler than they are about the ASME certification.

I know of another person in Northern Michigan who was able to explain to the local mechanical inspector that his boiler, although not ASME approved, was EN303-5 approved (this is the European boiler standard which combines both a UL type certification and ASME type certification into one test standard). Once the supporting documentation was supplied to the inspector and the inspector recognized that the person knew what they were doing (as was evidenced by the fact that the "closed" boiler system had a 30 psi, ASME certified pressure relief valve and low water cut off device installed) the inspector used the age old idea of "common sense" and approved the installation.

Hope this helps to give a better understanding of closed, pressurized boiler systems.

Brian

 

[infinitymike]

WOOD GUN from AHS in Pennsylvania can provide an ASME and UL label or it may be a CSA label
But it will cost more for the unit. I think it was another grand or so.
Which I don't understand why. If they have the certification and rating, just slap them on all the units and they would sell more.