Git R Done boys.......

[bpirger]

SAdly to get into office you have to take their money.....and once it begins, apparently, there is no end!

"All" that is needed is the rise of a third independent party, committed to pass campaign finance reform, stop the revolving door, and stop pandering to those who got the normal politicians into office....

I'd have to believe there's a few hundred good woman and men that would stick to their principles and do the right thing...and then move on for the next round. It might take a decade to get enough numbers in office to make the changes, but oh what a wonderul nation it could be.

And if all the mega wealthy want to leave, let's all stand and waive together...however many fingers you chose to waive is up to you.

Returning the power to the people, the people who have their children fighting overseas so the wealthy can garner even more wealth, the people that have lost so much so the wealth can continue to be sucked upwards like never before in history, the vast majority of Americans, the middle class....and pass laws based on how many people they will positively affect, not how many dollars end up in the hands of the ones influencing all the politicians. Just imagine how much positive influence on the country that would be....

 

[Willman]

market is not taking the rebuilding of Japan’s infrastructure into account.

Definitely not a lot of steel recycling gonna be going on in Japan. They will be rethinking their (nukleear) power plant building methods for sure. Any heavy construction, steel, electrical companies stock is looking like a buy, not to mention all the automobiles that will need replacing.They will be in it for the long haul for sure.

Any insurance companies involved there and here will be upping their rates for all policy holders to pay for this debacle. Makes the steel price rise pale in comparison.

Will

 

[heaterman]

market is not taking the rebuilding of Japan’s infrastructure into account.

Definitely not a lot of steel recycling gonna be going on in Japan. They will be rethinking their (nukleear) power plant building methods for sure. Any heavy construction, steel, electrical companies stock is looking like a buy, not to mention all the automobiles that will need replacing.They will be in it for the long haul for sure.

Any insurance companies involved there and here will be upping their rates for all policy holders to pay for this debacle. Makes the steel price rise pale in comparison.

Will

I read somewhere that over 45,000 new cars of various brands were destroyed by the tsunami. Don't know if it's true or accurate but that's a big hit for the companies holding the bag on those $$.$$

Also read today that at least 50 of the guys working the nuke site to try and avert a full blown catastrophe have received enough radiation that they know they are going to die soon. What a pitiful situation.

 

[Willman]

50 of the guys working the nuke

They are known as "jumpers" in the nuke world. Paid real well. provides for their families after their gone. Get sick asap or linger like the people from the WTC.

Will

 

[BoilerBob]

Getting this back on track........
This is a quote from an e-mail I got from a manufacturer a couple days ago.............

"We’re up about 9% on the residential models and 13% on the larger models. This was a tough call as we have been proud to hold the pricing for 3 years. But as you well know the costs of steel are soaring sharply. The odd thing is that the 10-20% industry increases on the steel (and metals) market is not taking the rebuilding of Japan’s infrastructure into account. I fear there is still a long way to go."

So. What are your plans people? Need I say more?

My plans were a gasser with storage, approx 3 years away. Does it make sense to purchase gasser now, and store it while I prepare the water storage location and build firewood storage shelter? My whole garage needs a renovation, then I would build a firewood storage area on the south east side. I could swing the gasser purchase now, then while my finances recoup, I could tackle these projects as I can afford them.

Will I pay a lot more in 2 or 3 years time for the gasser?
Thanks PC

 

[pybyr]

Getting this back on track........
This is a quote from an e-mail I got from a manufacturer a couple days ago.............

"We’re up about 9% on the residential models and 13% on the larger models. This was a tough call as we have been proud to hold the pricing for 3 years. But as you well know the costs of steel are soaring sharply. The odd thing is that the 10-20% industry increases on the steel (and metals) market is not taking the rebuilding of Japan’s infrastructure into account. I fear there is still a long way to go."

So. What are your plans people? Need I say more?

My plans were a gasser with storage, approx 3 years away. Does it make sense to purchase gasser now, and store it while I prepare the water storage location and build firewood storage shelter? My whole garage needs a renovation, then I would build a firewood storage area on the south east side. I could swing the gasser purchase now, then while my finances recoup, I could tackle these projects as I can afford them.

Will I pay a lot more in 2 or 3 years time for the gasser?
Thanks PC

Hard to say what costs will do-- but right now, there are makes and designs available that nearly no one on this side of the Atlantic even knew about 3 years ago [such as suction draft, lambda control, etc.]. In that sense, I'd probably wait, as your options may expand. In addition, if purchasing ahead of time, I'd want to be sure that any warranties ran from the time placed in service, rather than the time of purchase.

 

[kopeck]

Sorry to sway the conversation away from politics or what have your but I was curious about other prices.

I know boiler are going to go up, I hope to get my foot in the door before I have to deal with that but what about the other materials?

Like has anyone priced 1 1/4" Copper pipe recently? I did a google search and hit a few prices, anywhere from $50 to $70 a 10 foot section. It wouldn't surprise me if locally it was a bit less (who really orders pipe online) but since it's a Sunday I can't call and find out.

I did take a peek at 1 1/4 S40 black pipe last time I was at the Home Depot (not where I would buy it but it gives me an idea on what the price it running) and it was $23 for a 10 foot section.

I would kind of like to go copper for my project but that's quiet a price difference!

K

 

[pwschiller]

Sorry to sway the conversation away from politics or what have your but I was curious about other prices.
Like has anyone priced 1 1/4" Copper pipe recently? I did a google search and hit a few prices, anywhere from $50 to $70 a 10 foot section. It wouldn't surprise me if locally it was a bit less (who really orders pipe online) but since it's a Sunday I can't call and find out.

I would kind of like to go copper for my project but that's quiet a price difference!

K

You can see current HD prices and inventory online. Type M copper in 10' lengths:
1/2" - $11.81
3/4" - $19.47
1" - $32.69
1-1/4" - $47.92

The 1-1/4" is not carried at all locations.

PEX Supply seems to have good prices on fittings.

 

[kopeck]

You can see current HD prices and inventory online. Type M copper in 10' lengths:
1/2" - $11.81
3/4" - $19.47
1" - $32.69
1-1/4" - $47.92

The 1-1/4" is not carried at all locations.

PEX Supply seems to have good prices on fittings.

Sorry, I knew that, I'm not sure how HD prices compare to most plumbing houses though. I also brought this up since copper seems to be on the rise (I know scrap is up).

I see that you listed M, do most of you folks use M or L?

K

 

[pwschiller]

Sorry, I knew that, I'm not sure how HD prices compare to most plumbing houses though. I also brought this up since copper seems to be on the rise (I know scrap is up).

I see that you listed M, do most of you folks use M or L?
K

On 2/15/2011 I received a quote from one of the NH plumbing retailer/wholesalers for several thousand dollars worth of supplies and it included prices for type M copper:
3/4" x 10' - $36.67
1" x 10' - $57.22
1-1/4" x 10' - $81.39

That's considerably more than HD and I think that copper prices have gone up since then.

I'm not a plumber, but my understanding is that type M is generally used in closed heating systems and type L is used for domestic water plumbing, but I believe that either one meets code for either use.

 

[kopeck]

My understanding was L was is heavier pipe, I know back in the day when people still buried copper L was what was used not M.

M is cheaper so that's cool with me. I know my 3/4" heating stuff is M, I wasn't sure if it mattered more to use L when the size increased.

You are right though, HD is cheaper. Maybe I'll call around Monday and then stock pile some so I'll have it on hand this summer. I doubt it will loose value in that time.

K

 

[kopeck]

Lowes had:

1 1/4" x 10' L for 53.83 (they only had L)
3/4" x 10' M $17.90
3/4" x 10' L $25.23

I also have a list of common fittings but I wont bore you with those.

I really need to figure out if I want to go iron or copper.

K

 

[RowCropRenegade]

Interesting thread. A few things I might add:

Scrap steel is selling for 240 a ton. Been hauling in load after load cleaning out a woods and making new farmland. It's the place where farm machinery/hog equipment went to die. I anticipate steel going up because ALL COMMIDITIES are sky rocketing. We are only hauling what we have to into the scrap yard. There should be plenty left to sell for 340/ton.

Funny how the federal government figures inflation. Their numbers leave out the MOST important inputs: Food and Fuel. As we all know, those two items have been skyrocketing. Not to mention new and used equipment, corn, soybeans, wheat, copper, oil, repairs, tires, lumber, tires, copper, platinum, the list goes on and on. I see no way that we experience deflation as long as Bernanke is in charge. Cause if we experience deflation, we will have sovereign default, mass starvation, civil strife and many wild things. Basically 1930s depression times 10. This will NOT be allowed to happen. They will keep the printers running on max.

No way this thing doesn't end badly. Fractional Reserve Banking is a pyramid scheme.

 

[kopeck]

I hope there were no gems that you sent off to China (Sorry, farm equipment buff, like the 574 BTW)!

That's what I've been reading, scrap is up like a few years ago. Really it's just like a few years ago, fuels up and anything that isn't bolted down is being cut up and sold as scrap. I've got a bunch of copper that was underground I should probably turn into cash, might help my project out.

K

 

[rkusek]

Regulation of the ilk that controlled essentially how monopoloies could run their business....indeed, breaking them up into pieces allowed for competition. Not to mention a very healthy dose of technology. This is all good...agreed.

Regulation that removes the rules on these banks which allows them to gamble, and to build an enormous system to cover the betting, is not good. When people get rich from creating and adding something to society, it is likely a good thing, and a good idea that they worked for. When people get rich effectively from stealing from others, this is NOT a good thing....and not good for society. It is pretty simple....and I'd think most of all people would agree on this.

No doubt there are people who borrowed too much, too much house, etc. and so forth. I actually don't know any who did....but I'm a recluse. LMAO The way I see it though, is everyday the banker signed a hundred papers, knowing full well what was going to happen to each one of those individuals. The banker collected his fees, and by the end of the day, he was no longer responsible for the paper, becuase it was packaged and sold to someone else. Based on a AAA rating from the rating people, who then testify "it is just our opinion". DUH! So why not ask me for my opinion then AIG?

I could be mistaken but I don't believe it WAS the bankers that came up with the idea to make home loans to people that could not afford it. Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and others including Bush too had a hand in the noble cause of "providing the means for everyone to own their own home" even if they could not make the payments. Fannie & Freddie (gov companies) were used to guarantee the debt and keep banks making more bad loans. In fact, Jamie Gorelick rumored to be Obama's next head of FBI encouraged the practice of bundling up the subprime loans into securities that could be sold to generate more money to make subprime loans.

“Fannie Mae will buy CRA loans from lenders' portfolios; we'll package them into securities; we'll purchase CRA mortgages at the point of origination; and we'll create customized CRA-targeted securities,†she said in 2001. “This expanded approach has improved liquidity in the secondary market for CRA product, and has helped our lenders leverage even more CRA lending. Lenders now have the flexibility to use their own, customized loan products.â€

In remarks before the American Bankers Association on Oct. 30, 2000, Gorelick explicitly how the process would work and what Fannie Mae would do to make it feasible for banks to lend to low-income applicants.

“We will take CRA loans off your hands--we will buy them from your portfolios, or package them into securities--so you have fresh cash to make more CRA loans,†she said. “Some people have assumed we don't buy tough loans. Let me correct that misimpression right now. We want your CRA loans because they help us meet our housing goals.â€

You can read more about this here. Incidently, even though she had no prior experience in finance she became vice chairman of Fannie in 1997 after being Janet Reno's #2 in the Clinton administration. Fannie's chairman Franklin Raines was Budget Director for Clinton. Gorelick made about $26 million working for Fannie, getting out right before it tanked and had to be bailed out.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/clinton-official-embroiled-911-controver
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Gorelick
[quote/]

 

[rkusek]

Bottom line is greed. Money. Sure, I'd like more and I've learned I have to play the corporate game to get what I should get.... But I'm not going to fire my employees so that I can have more. I'm not going to ask my employees to work twice as hard for 5% more so I can get more. But I'm not quite as greedy as others, that's why I'm not in the business side of business, and it is really criminal (to me) that this continues like this.

I do see the greed in corporate elite but we also have many cases of a lack of motivation in my workplace. A unionized workforce is all paid the same whether you are good or bad at what you do, whether you work hard or just milk the clock. Many guys go to great lengths to do as little as possible knowing the can't be fired because of the union. The company is at fault as well, they agree to contracts that pay more for doing less instead of insisting on the opposite as far as performance goes. Many of the guys have worked here all their life and have no idea what it is like to work a real job where they would probably be fired on the first day. I once worked for a printing company that payed about a $7/hr guarantee (1995) but then had a lucrative incentive pay system where you could make around $40-55k. We were paid X amount for each copy and it had to meet quality standards to count. In addition you couldn't mess around because the other line would finish their run first and take your jobs. We also had a 4 hour press maintenance time each week ($7/hr ) where you had to clean, replace worn parts, grease, etc. to keep it in good working order. You had to work with the other 2 shifts to make sure everyone made good use of the 4hr time to fix what need to get fixed otherwise it would break down when you were trying to make your money. It really brought out the best in everyone and one line would even help out the other if they were having big problems.

[quote/]
As for healthcare, just to chime in a bit, I agree ObamaCare isn't going to help the cost. It will cover more people with care. I guess, to me, in the America that I like to think I live in, if you are sick, you should be able to obtain health care. The bill helps in that direction. It forces people to buy insuance from the insurance company....bad idea. But it also provides care to millions who don't have it. Is that saying to much? We are the only western country that operates the way we do....I think perhaps that is saying something. We also recycle the least and consume, by far, the most. That also says something. Are they related? Eh, I think so.[/quote]

I don't think putting the government in charge of 21% of the nations GDP is going to make it more efficient or cover more people. The Fed govt does a poor managing almost everything it touches. I think they should stick to things like the military, air traffic control, food safety, things that are not practical in the private sector. The solution for those not on Medicare is those HDHPs with the HSAs. Encourage people to play a part in their own well being and how much it costs. The result will be better for everyone.

 

[Pat53]

Interesting thread. A few things I might add:

Scrap steel is selling for 240 a ton. Been hauling in load after load cleaning out a woods and making new farmland. It's the place where farm machinery/hog equipment went to die. I anticipate steel going up because ALL COMMIDITIES are sky rocketing. We are only hauling what we have to into the scrap yard. There should be plenty left to sell for 340/ton.

Funny how the federal government figures inflation. Their numbers leave out the MOST important inputs: Food and Fuel. As we all know, those two items have been skyrocketing. Not to mention new and used equipment, corn, soybeans, wheat, copper, oil, repairs, tires, lumber, tires, copper, platinum, the list goes on and on. I see no way that we experience deflation as long as Bernanke is in charge. Cause if we experience deflation, we will have sovereign default, mass starvation, civil strife and many wild things. Basically 1930s depression times 10. This will NOT be allowed to happen. They will keep the printers running on max.

No way this thing doesn't end badly. Fractional Reserve Banking is a pyramid scheme.

Well said Row, especially the last line. FRB is indeed a ponzi. The FDIC is broke, actually in the red, and banks have less than 2 CENTS of cash to cover every dollar of deposit money. Comforting, isn't it ! ? So the FDIC can say they insure your deposits to $10M, it doesn't matter, they have no money to cover your deposits, unless they print it out of thin air ! LOL

The big question now, going forward, is what will Bernanke do after June when QE2 ends. If he indeed ends pumping the markets with cash "cold turkey", there could be panic selling in all asset classes. The economy is in no way ready to stand on its own. But at some point Bernanke is going to have to defend old "Uncle Buck". The $ is close to falling off a cliff right now, and if they announce another round of QE, it could crash. That would send commodity prices soaring and bond yields and interest rates spiking higher. That would likely casue a panic for sure.

Besides, you have several new voting Fed Governors who would not support another round of monetization by the Fed. The American people are also fed up with the continued debasement of the currency to basically support and bail out Wall Street and the big banks.

So, the way I see it, Bernanke is in a box. If he takes away the punch bowl cold turkey, he risks the financial markets throwing a major "temper tantrum", and possibly an all-out crash, and if he announces another round of debt monetization ( AKA money printing), he risks a $ crash and a bond market implosion and skyrocketing prices for literally everything.

Personally, I don't see a way out without a lot of pain. We are in big trouble as a nation. We might as well take our medicine now and get it over with. But the politicians and beaurocrats always want to try and convince you they know how to get us out of this mess, We just need to "trust" them, even tho they are the ones who have put us in this horrible predicament .

To think that these people actually belive that you can solve a debt crisis by going deeper into debt is simply mind-boggling. When you're deep in a hole, the first thing you need to do is stop digging. Nope, not according to these dopes, just keep diggin' ! LOL

Austerity, and another Revolution is coming to America too, just a matter of time.

 

[benjamin]

This all is getting way too complicated for me, but it does seem like a repeat of three years ago.

Buy the boiler and the copper and bury them next to your gold if you want, but my philosophy on these things is buy low and sell high. I've still got a small stack of 3/4" type M left from when they hit $8, that was about two years ago, not 6-10.

By all means if you're planning to be setting up a new boiler by next season get it paid for and on the way, but you won't do so well if you have to sell it used a few years from now once new prices have come back down.