Give up my Jotuls for a outdoor burner?

[polaris]

I am just starting my thought process regarding changing/supplementing my heating source from an Oslo and a Castine to an outdoor burner or an indoor furnace. I really know very little about either set up so I have a couple of noobie questions. 1). How far away from the house can I set up an outdoor forced air system without dramatic heat loss? 2). I have seen a lot of different manufacturers out there. Are there any that should be avoided completely?. Sorry for the simplistic question but as I said I'm just starting to try and wrap my head around this whole concept.
Thanks
Joe

 

[woodsmaster]

polaris,
Hi I'm on lunch so I cant go into much detail now but here's a quick answer. You can easily go 200' without much heat loss with good insulated pipe like thermopex or logstor ,but at $13 - $16 / foot gets very expensive so you
may want to go as close as possible.

I would recommend a indoor Gasser in a shed or a outdoor Gasser by econoburn or central boiler to keep wood consumption and smoke to a minimum. Just my opinion.

 

[polaris]

Thanks woods. The ideal location is about 180 ft. from the house so maybe that would work. Are there many options regarding the insulated pipe/duct(forced air)? I have a backhoe attachment so I'm not going to have to pay somebody to do any digging for the pipe.
Joe

 

[jeff_t]

Lots of things to consider.

How much are you trying to heat? Besides the stoves, what type of heating system do you have now? Sounds like you are trying to get away from the stoves, and into a central heating system.

Do you have someplace good to locate an indoor furnace? Easy basement access and a good way to hook into an existing forced air system make an indoor furnace a good choice for central heating. Probably least expensive to get set up.
The general opinion of the 'typical' OWB is that they are very inefficient, and consume a lot of wood. But lots of people have them and are happy. Just be aware that they are not all created equal.

Indoor gasification boiler work very well, but with either type of boiler you have to consider everything else you need to get going. All the plumbing, pumps, heat exchangers(to use in a forced air system), etc all add a lot the the cost of the system. If you can do the installation yourself, you can save a bundle.

 

[laynes69]

If you have a good location for a indoor wood furnace, I wouldn't place one outside. We have heated for years with a forced air woodfurnace. When the furnace is indoors, you get the radiant heat off the unit. Othewise you lose heat when its outside. Also carrying heated air through ducts outdoors, you will lose heat that way. Do you want forced air, or water heat? I have a feeling going from 2 EPA stoves to a OWB or OWF you will be unhappy with the consumption of wood. There are a few good indoor furnaces on the market that burn cleanly.

 

[btuser]

Thanks woods. The ideal location is about 180 ft. from the house so maybe that would work. Are there many options regarding the insulated pipe/duct(forced air)? I have a backhoe attachment so I'm not going to have to pay somebody to do any digging for the pipe.
Joe

I may be wrong or missing something, but it sounds like you're talking about a wood furnace and not a boiler. If that's the case you would want to either have it in the house or use a water to air heat exchanger coil. Depending how your house is set up you could pump hot water to a buffer tank in the house or maybe large storage. From what I've heard/read/experienced hot air has a very hard time over 100' in conditioned space, and that's for large roof top units. Home units will go 20-30' before one end is too cool.

 

[woodsmaster]

I was assuming you were talking about a boiler since this is the boiler room ? You can run the water threw a heat exchanger to turn it into forced air.

 

[polaris]

I should have been more clear. I am not sure what type I want. I am heating almost 5000 sq. ft. I currently run 2 wood stoves( Jotul Oslo and Castine) a couple of oil filled radiators and a vent free lpg stove if needed. I don't have access to ng so I have a 1000 gal. under ground propane tank with central forced air furnace. I don't really use lpg for heating though. (hot water and cook stove). I have plenty of land on which to locate an outdoor unit but have the room for an indoor furnace as well. I just trying to figure out what will work best, have the greatest longevity and be most cost effective.
Thanks for all the replys.
Joe

 

[laynes69]

With almost 5000 square feet, I would look into a gasification boiler with a heat exchanger. I'm sure that would be a better route to go than a forced air furnace. Anything forced air will use a hell of alot of wood to heat something like that. Someone with more boiler experience will chime in. Thats alot of footage to heat. Hows the home laid out? Does it have ductwork to every room, and how is it insulated?

 

[polaris]

The place has a very open floor plan. Kitchen, dining room and great room are all connected and there is a loft area with several rooms above these with a cat walk connecting them. The lower level is not quite as open but it's close. However there is not much exchange between the lower level and the other two. The house is about eight years old, has high end double paned insulated windows/doors and pretty decent insulation with a forced air lpg furnace with duct work running to all rooms. I just feel a bit out of my league/undereducated when it comes to central heating with wood and I'm trying to educate myself/weigh my options.
Joe

 

[laynes69]

Do you know how many Btus your central furnace is rated at? Being a newer home, your house may not have near the heat load of an older home. There is one furnace that I know of thats a clean burning furnace, that has a high heat output. Thats the Max Caddy, and its an indoor wood furnace. Its the largest that I know of that incorporates secondary combustion. With it tied into the duct system, it could possibly eliminate your need for propane. It would burn basically the same as your current EPA stoves. Of course using more wood, but eliminating 2 stoves, you may save wood. But even that square footage I don't know if its big enough.

Other options include a Outdoor forced air furnace, a Outdoor wood boiler, and a Gasification boiler. A OWF will potentially use as much wood as a OWB. They are terrible when it comes to clean burning like a OWB. Stuff it and when theres no call for heat the thing will smoke quite a bit, plus any heat thats lost in the ducting and the unit outdoors is wasted heat. A gasification boiler will be very efficient when coupled with storage. One thing that sticks out with that type of system they are expensive up front.

If it were me and I knew what the house needed in terms of Btus, I would look into the Max Caddy. Out of all the options, it will be the second best when it comes to efficiency, right under a gasification boiler. You can add a coil and heat water with it also. Of course your heat from an indoor wood furnace won't be like a standard furnace, but you get a steady supply of Btus in the home. I would love the seering heat from a stove, but a nice warm even heat from a wood furnace is great. Here is a link to look at. I don't know if its big enough, but its something to check out.

http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=26&Id=376&Page=description

Is there anything specific you were wondering about? Or concerns?

 

[willworkforwood]

I am just starting my thought process regarding changing/supplementing my heating source from an Oslo and a Castine to an outdoor burner or an indoor furnace.

It's not clear what your goal is. Are you trying to cut down the work of running 2 stoves? Use less wood? Wanting to burn wood unattend for longer periods of time? Keep the house warmer? Maybe if you tell us exactly what your trying to accomplish, it might be easier to figure out what the best options would be. It's also possible to get the added benefit of DHW heated by wood, and you might want to factor that into the mix as well.

 

[jeff_t]

Anybody know anything about the apex furnace from BK?

 

[heaterman]

polaris,
Hi I'm on lunch so I cant go into much detail now but here's a quick answer. You can easily go 200' without much heat loss with good insulated pipe like thermopex or logstor ,but at $13 - $16 / foot gets very expensive so you
may want to go as close as possible.

I would recommend a indoor Gasser in a shed or a outdoor Gasser by econoburn or central boiler to keep wood consumption and smoke to a minimum. Just my opinion.

Ummmmm???? CB gasser = Econoburn ??? They are not in the same league from what I have seen.

 

[woodsmaster]

polaris,
Hi I'm on lunch so I cant go into much detail now but here's a quick answer. You can easily go 200' without much heat loss with good insulated pipe like thermopex or logstor ,but at $13 - $16 / foot gets very expensive so you
may want to go as close as possible.

I would recommend a indoor Gasser in a shed or a outdoor Gasser by econoburn or central boiler to keep wood consumption and smoke to a minimum. Just my opinion.

Ummmmm???? CB gasser = Econoburn ??? They are not in the same league from what I have seen.

I dont have experiance with either. I was just going on effiancy and a name brand. If I were going to put in a outdoor wood burner which I'm not, I already am in the process of installing an indoor gasser I would want
one from a large reputable company in hopes that if I had problams they would be around to honer the warrenty.

 

[BrotherBart]

5,000 sq. ft. :ahhh:

 

[polaris]

I am just starting my thought process regarding changing/supplementing my heating source from an Oslo and a Castine to an outdoor burner or an indoor furnace.

It's not clear what your goal is. Are you trying to cut down the work of running 2 stoves? Use less wood? Wanting to burn wood unattend for longer periods of time? Keep the house warmer? Maybe if you tell us exactly what your trying to accomplish, it might be easier to figure out what the best options would be. It's also possible to get the added benefit of DHW heated by wood, and you might want to factor that into the mix as well.

Really all of the above, although I realize using less wood may or may not be in the cards. I checked out the Caddy and it does look nice. The forced air lpg furnace is 96,000 btu's.
Joe

 

[shagy]

polaris,
Hi I'm on lunch so I cant go into much detail now but here's a quick answer. You can easily go 200' without much heat loss with good insulated pipe like thermopex or logstor ,but at $13 - $16 / foot gets very expensive so you
may want to go as close as possible.

I would recommend a indoor Gasser in a shed or a outdoor Gasser by econoburn or central boiler to keep wood consumption and smoke to a minimum. Just my opinion.

Ummmmm???? CB gasser = Econoburn ??? They are not in the same league from what I have seen.

I know of a guy that just just put in a "CB SMOKE DRAGON " non gasser to replace his 150 Econoburn. By the way its for sale. 3 yrs old ..3000.00 by owner He burnt 20 FACE cord or 7cord on a new ranch home. His brother has a bigger home same age and burnt less wood with a CB5036 ?? We will see what happens. I tried to get him to put in storage but his dealer insisted it was not needed. He also did not like the smoke through out the home from the boiler in the cellar.

 

[eco-one]

how about a eco-one from aqua-therm much less smoke than a regular owb not a gassifier but it will get the job done with lot less smoke

 

[pybyr]

polaris,
Hi I'm on lunch so I cant go into much detail now but here's a quick answer. You can easily go 200' without much heat loss with good insulated pipe like thermopex or logstor ,but at $13 - $16 / foot gets very expensive so you
may want to go as close as possible.

I would recommend a indoor Gasser in a shed or a outdoor Gasser by econoburn or central boiler to keep wood consumption and smoke to a minimum. Just my opinion.

Ummmmm???? CB gasser = Econoburn ??? They are not in the same league from what I have seen.

I know of a guy that just just put in a "CB SMOKE DRAGON " non gasser to replace his 150 Econoburn. By the way its for sale. 3 yrs old ..3000.00 by owner He burnt 20 FACE cord or 7cord on a new ranch home. His brother has a bigger home same age and burnt less wood with a CB5036 ?? We will see what happens. I tried to get him to put in storage but his dealer insisted it was not needed. He also did not like the smoke through out the home from the boiler in the cellar.

Still P.O'd at Econoburn, Shagy? I've been content with mine- I don't have it on a pedestal, but it's a quality-designed, quality-constructed unit that has been serving me well.

PS, of the outdoor units, the one that really impressed me was the Portage & Main unit that I saw at the NE Forest expo back in May. It appears to be a true downdraft gasifier design, 'built for stout', lots of heat exchange, and set up to be very easy to clean the heat exchangers.