around 90000 people have signed on to turn there power of at the main breaker tonight to protest rate hikes of 10% in 1 year
giving hydro quebec a little kick in the n* ts
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mellow
Resident Stove Connoisseur
Of course to anyone down in the states we would all be jumping for joy if we could get the new rate that HQ is offering (HQ has about the lowest rates around due to major investments in hydro)
Hydro Quebec is the only electrical company in the province, no one has any choice but to use them. So each time they raise their rates, people have no choice but to pay. It would be much better if their was some competition for my dollar. It's why I started burning wood in the first place, I have an electric furnace. I for one am turning off my main breaker tonight.
Ha, you should be so lucky you're not living in Ontario.
42% increase in 5 yrs. and more just announced!http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/02/ontario-hydro-rates-to-rise-42-in-5-years
The gov't says Ont. rates are in line with other areas but if you compare the TOTAL bill per KWh, we're the highest in North America.
Ontario decided to get off coal about 10 years ago and substantially reduce carbon, lots of expensive new power plants to pay off and a whole bunch of renewable subsidies have to get paid for somehow.
The most expensive one was the the gas plant that got cancelled after it was partially built so the former Premier could his party re-elected in that riding. That cancellation cost a BILLION $$$ Even in Cdn $, that's a whack of a lot of money. It's still the subject of a lot of hatred.
midwestcoast
Minister of Fire
Keeping a huge gov't utility honest is a constant process, and there is plenty of waste for sure, but don't think the grass would be greener in a private market. Quebec has been reaping the benefits of massive investments in hydroelectric for decades. Smaller private companies could never have done what Hydro Quebec did.
In the late '90's-early 2000's the gov' t decided that a province wide utility was bad, so they would break it up & privatize it. Well they got to breaking it up, but then the whole Enron scandal hit & they ended-up keeping the smaller entities as gov't owned corporations.
The old Ontario Hydro had wracked-up a massive debt (around $20 Billion?) before all of this. The Nuclear plant in Darlington had ended-up costing ~$15 billion and over a decade to build in the early '80's to '90s (mostly because of political interference). Several other debacles (mostly involving Nuc plants) tacked on a few Billion. When the gov't split up the massive ON Hydro, none of the smaller entities could handle that huge debt, so they created a sort of gov't shell corporation, transferred the debt over & directed them to get it paid off. Rate-payers got a "debt retirement charge" added to their bills.
Since that wasn't bad enough the gov't froze rates at an artificially low level from 1999 to 2004 adding another billion or so to the debt while ratepayers were already paying the "debt retirement charge"!
I the debt charge is about due to finally come off the bills. Is that true Doug?
The Ontario story is way longer & more frustrating than that. The original goal was to be off coal by 2009, but it was a political promise & the gov't underestimated the task badly, then refused to admit so for much too long & ended up wasting a whole lot of money starting & stopping decommissioning & construction on plants. Doug's gas plant is just one example.
In the late '90's-early 2000's the gov' t decided that a province wide utility was bad, so they would break it up & privatize it. Well they got to breaking it up, but then the whole Enron scandal hit & they ended-up keeping the smaller entities as gov't owned corporations.
The old Ontario Hydro had wracked-up a massive debt (around $20 Billion?) before all of this. The Nuclear plant in Darlington had ended-up costing ~$15 billion and over a decade to build in the early '80's to '90s (mostly because of political interference). Several other debacles (mostly involving Nuc plants) tacked on a few Billion. When the gov't split up the massive ON Hydro, none of the smaller entities could handle that huge debt, so they created a sort of gov't shell corporation, transferred the debt over & directed them to get it paid off. Rate-payers got a "debt retirement charge" added to their bills.
Since that wasn't bad enough the gov't froze rates at an artificially low level from 1999 to 2004 adding another billion or so to the debt while ratepayers were already paying the "debt retirement charge"!
I the debt charge is about due to finally come off the bills. Is that true Doug?
Yes but it has been replaced with new charges. They will be putting on an extra tax that is based on your income. High income = much higher hydro bills, low income gets a modest reduction.
In addition to that, the Sunshine List of gov't employees that earn over $100,000/yr was just released. There are about 12,500 employees from OPG, Hydro One and their subsidiaries on the 2014 list Pretty decent chunk of change to work for hydro. Tom Mitchell, chief executive of Ontario Power Generation, topped last year's list with earnings of $1.71 million. Carmine Marcello, chief executive of Hydro One, brought in $728,570. The Premier of the province (equiv. of Governor) makes just over 200K by comparison.
That is the best quote I have heard on this in years.
Sorry, I guess I was wrong. News item today: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/04/05/hydro-debt-retirement-charge-costs-ontarians-115b.html
The Liberals plan to remove the debt retirement charge from household electricity bills on Jan. 1, 2016 — business and industrial customers will keep paying it until 2018 — which will eliminate hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue.
“For years, we were collecting a debt retirement charge but we never retired any,” said Bryne Purchase, an associate professor of economics at Queen’s University and a former deputy minister of finance under the Tories.
“This is the sleight of hand,” added Purchase, who was later deputy minister of energy under the Liberal government. “They never crystallized those numbers, never said, ‘This is how much we’re going to collect and once we’ve collected that we can retire the debt retirement charge.’ ”
“It’s a giant slush fund, effectively,” said Purchase. “Lots of other liabilities have been added in as a result of various manipulations the government has made.”
Keep in mind that the Ont. gov't is very heavily in debt due to gross mismanagement in general. I believe Ont. is the most in debt per capita of any gov't in North American. A budget is due soon and indications are that the gov't will be making new promises that it has no hope of ever meeting. The people keep electing the same bad gov't, so they have only themselves to blame. Isn't democracy great?
The Liberals plan to remove the debt retirement charge from household electricity bills on Jan. 1, 2016 — business and industrial customers will keep paying it until 2018 — which will eliminate hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue.
“For years, we were collecting a debt retirement charge but we never retired any,” said Bryne Purchase, an associate professor of economics at Queen’s University and a former deputy minister of finance under the Tories.
“This is the sleight of hand,” added Purchase, who was later deputy minister of energy under the Liberal government. “They never crystallized those numbers, never said, ‘This is how much we’re going to collect and once we’ve collected that we can retire the debt retirement charge.’ ”
“It’s a giant slush fund, effectively,” said Purchase. “Lots of other liabilities have been added in as a result of various manipulations the government has made.”
Keep in mind that the Ont. gov't is very heavily in debt due to gross mismanagement in general. I believe Ont. is the most in debt per capita of any gov't in North American. A budget is due soon and indications are that the gov't will be making new promises that it has no hope of ever meeting. The people keep electing the same bad gov't, so they have only themselves to blame. Isn't democracy great?
OK. They have been kicked in the, ah, shin.
Closing it. Ain't gonna solve the debt problem here.
Closing it. Ain't gonna solve the debt problem here.
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