Glass Only Get Dirty At End Of Overnight Load

[turbocruiser]

I'm hoping you all can assist me in understanding a user error I am probably performing on our stove ... it seems that my glass only gets dirty at the end of overnight loads. I typically wait until all the firewood that I loaded looks like good glowing coals and then adjust the air control from half open to completely closed and then go to bed but almost every morning when I wake I see that the glass got dirty overnight especially on the edges. Is this something that I'm doing the wrong way and if so what should I do differently? Thanks.

 

[Jags]

Sounds like you are choking it down a bit too much. Try and leave the primary air open 5% and see what happens. If that doesn't work, go to 10%. It won't be long and you will find that Sweet Spot.

 

[Milton Findley]

The glass gets dirty because soot is being deposited on it as the intensity of the fire dies down and the stove is cooling off. It gets cool at the edges before it gets cool in the center hence the soot around the edges. Most stoves have fresh air washes that decrease the amount of smoky air on the glass, but, as the fire burns down, the fresh air wash slows down because the draft slows down. Some air washes work better than others. Shutting down the primary air also slows the draft and depending on the stove, may increase the amount of soot deposited, and Jags mentioned adjusting the amount of closure. While dry wood certainly helps, it will not stop this process, and indeed, it is mostly about a slow fire with decreased air flow.

Soot on the glass is normal for most of us and it can be burned off with a really hot fire, or wiped off with a damp paper towel dipped in ashes, or with specialized glass cleaners. It is not necessarily the result of any error in your techniques.

 

[pen]

Leaving it 50% open until coaling seems high if you have good fuel. I'd try closing it down to about 25% during the active fire phase and just leaving it there.

pen

 

[colebrookman]

Leaving it 50% open until coaling seems high if you have good fuel. I'd try closing it down to about 25% during the active fire phase and just leaving it there.

pen

+1 Pen, works for me. Be safe
Ed

 

[cybex]

Not to sidetrack the dirty glass issue, but colebrookman in Middlefield MA(?). I thought I either have passed through or know of every town in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. I had to look up your town. And 253 acres. WOW! (a lot of land here in MA compared to other parts of the country)

 

[turbocruiser]

Sounds like you are choking it down a bit too much. Try and leave the primary air open 5% and see what happens. If that doesn't work, go to 10%. It won't be long and you will find that Sweet Spot.

Okay thanks Jags, I will try that, and in addition I will try to take more accurate measurements of what several specific positions look like with the air control adjustment lever on the front face of the stove. I recently posted a pic of the area that allows primary air into the stove and it is basically a triangle with a short slot above it at the top. I can really easily measure the triangle and calculate 50%, 25%, 10%, etc and then use a pencil or something to show where that would be with the lever. Also for whatever it will reveal I think I will mark the lever when only the short slot above the triangle is open. That might be the best for allowing more air in than what I am doing as I completely close it for our overnight burns. Anyway, thanks for the advice there; I assumed that I had to completely close the air as soon as the stove was unsupervised. I'll try increasing small (supervised) steps of open and see both what the temps do and also what the dirty glass does. Thanks Again!

The glass gets dirty because soot is being deposited on it as the intensity of the fire dies down and the stove is cooling off. It gets cool at the edges before it gets cool in the center hence the soot around the edges. Most stoves have fresh air washes that decrease the amount of smoky air on the glass, but, as the fire burns down, the fresh air wash slows down because the draft slows down. Some air washes work better than others. Shutting down the primary air also slows the draft and depending on the stove, may increase the amount of soot deposited, and Jags mentioned adjusting the amount of closure. While dry wood certainly helps, it will not stop this process, and indeed, it is mostly about a slow fire with decreased air flow.

Soot on the glass is normal for most of us and it can be burned off with a really hot fire, or wiped off with a damp paper towel dipped in ashes, or with specialized glass cleaners. It is not necessarily the result of any error in your techniques.

Thanks Milt that makes perfect sense. I know that the wood I'm burning now is beautifully seasoned and it is a mix of ash, cottonwood, elm and oak. All throughout the fire from startup to turning the air control closed for overnight burns the glass is really almost completely clean. I love it because you get a great view of the fire almost all the way through. I've even watched it while I fought off some shuteye to see when it was starting to go from good clean glass with that glowing bed of coals to the dirty glass I get every morning, but, the coals outlasted me so I think this is happening at some almost final point for the fire. That may be way you are also saying it is not necessarily any error.

One thing that I would like clarification on ... are you saying you simply burn off the dirt through the next fire for the most part? I'm taking the time to clean this residue each and every time with two products I purchased from Rutland. One is a liquid cleaner and gets the easy stuff off fast and the other is a past cleaner that gets the tough stuff off slowly. Thanks Again!

Leaving it 50% open until coaling seems high if you have good fuel. I'd try closing it down to about 25% during the active fire phase and just leaving it there.

pen

Thanks pen, I will try that, with 50% open and with 1/2 loads of wood I'm running right around 650 to 750 F at hottest areas pretty reliably and I am running those 1/2 loads of wood that way to whenever I want to go to bed then I wait a while for no wood and all coals and then completely close the air control. So I'm probably running it relatively wide and then closing too much. I might get to 25% open from start to stop but I think I'll do that in super small increments just because I'm basically too novice to leave the stove unsupervised at 25% at this time. I'll report back my findings after few more fires! Thanks Again.

If the glass is sooting up at the end of a burn, it sounds like damp wood to me. Usually the end of the burn is just charcoal which burns pretty cleanly.

Well I will verify this with a moisture meter (going to get one this weekend) but this stuff was all standing dead two to three years, then felled a full year and stored in someone's huge steel building, then bucked and split a year ago. It sounds hollow when smacking with itself and it absolutely takes off with one small fire starter so I assumed its all seasoned, but, in the interest of accuracy I'll actually check to make totally sure. Again I'll report back my findings on that too. Thanks again for all the advice, you all really put up patiently with amateurs around here and it is appreciated very very much!

 

[begreen]

If the glass is sooting up at the end of a burn, it sounds like damp wood to me. Usually the end of the burn is just charcoal which burns pretty cleanly.

 

[turbocruiser]

Thanks again for all the advice folks, I posted above to all the posts thus far. (Several came in all while i was figuring out multi-quote-messages, DOH ) Thanks.

 

[argus66]

i get this from time to time and i have well seasoned 2 yr wood sometimes i can damper all the way sometimes i have to leave a little open. if u sweep regularly u have nothing to worry about..

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I'm hoping you all can assist me in understanding a user error I am probably performing on our stove ... it seems that my glass only gets dirty at the end of overnight loads. I typically wait until all the firewood that I loaded looks like good glowing coals and then adjust the air control from half open to completely closed and then go to bed but almost every morning when I wake I see that the glass got dirty overnight especially on the edges. Is this something that I'm doing the wrong way and if so what should I do differently? Thanks.

Why would you wait until you have glowing coals to turn the draft down? Waiting that long sends a big portion of your heat right up the chimney and I'd be amazed if you weren't heating that chimney too much!

Typically, one would begin to dial down the draft once the wood was charred and not when it is already at the coaling stage. Most would close the draft to about 50% then and after 10-20 minutes (more or less) close the draft a bit further but rarely close the draft all the way.

I also agree with BeGreen in that your wood is suspect because at the end of the burn cycle there isn't much left there that could dirty the glass or anything else. Perhaps that glass is getting dirty while you are sleeping and you just notice it when you get up.

 

[billb3]

No all day fires yet to apply this same technique and watch what happens ?

 

[turbocruiser]

I'm hoping you all can assist me in understanding a user error I am probably performing on our stove ... it seems that my glass only gets dirty at the end of overnight loads. I typically wait until all the firewood that I loaded looks like good glowing coals and then adjust the air control from half open to completely closed and then go to bed but almost every morning when I wake I see that the glass got dirty overnight especially on the edges. Is this something that I'm doing the wrong way and if so what should I do differently? Thanks.

Why would you wait until you have glowing coals to turn the draft down? Waiting that long sends a big portion of your heat right up the chimney and I'd be amazed if you weren't heating that chimney too much!

Typically, one would begin to dial down the draft once the wood was charred and not when it is already at the coaling stage. Most would close the draft to about 50% then and after 10-20 minutes (more or less) close the draft a bit further but rarely close the draft all the way.

I also agree with BeGreen in that your wood is suspect because at the end of the burn cycle there isn't much left there that could dirty the glass or anything else. Perhaps that glass is getting dirty while you are sleeping and you just notice it when you get up.

Why would I do that, well, just cause I don't know any better apparently. I'm not saying that defensively, just honestly. But just to clarify any confusion I'm also saying that I load about 1/2 load, start it with one small fire starter (Rutland Fire Starter Square), leave the air completely open for about twenty minutes, then close the air to 1/2 open until the wood starts to settle, then open the air to completely open for about thirty seconds, add more wood and repeat. I can basically do that until whenever I want to stop and then I'm completely closing the air for the overnight thing.

So when I say I'm waiting to turn the draft down only after having glowing coals, I'm saying I'm waiting to go from 1/2 open to completely closed; I absolutely have to go to 1/2 open within twenty minutes or so of startup or I'd run the stove too high.

Again I think starting tomorrow (for an all day burn) I'm going to repeat the above but as soon as the added wood gets good and charred I'll close the air to 25% and see what happens with that. I'm also going to get the moisture meter and check all my assumptions there too. Add lastly I'm going to try never completely closing the air control as I was doing before; as mentioned above, I'll try leaving just that oval slot open if that seems sensible and see how the stove reacts. I'm still learning the concept of containing as much heat in the stove as opposed to releasing it into the chimney. Again I appreciate everyone's advice.

 

[Jags]

There is nothing inherently wrong with your method, but there is another method that I think might work better for you AND reduce the amount of wood your consuming AND create more heat. You might want to try this, it is commonly referred to as the "batch" method:

Lay down your kindling and a FULL load of firewood (some people will start a small kindling fire, allow to burn down and then load a complete load).

Light fire with full air open. Allow time for wood to start to char. Allow stove top to come up to 500 or so degrees (this can be adjusted to fit your stove/system). Shut air to 50%. Allow another 50-100F increase in stove top temp. Close air to cruise settings. This will be different for all stoves, but probably somewhere around 5 - 20% open on the primary air setting.

Allow this load to burn back down to coaling stage. Your stove top will start to cool down. Reload stove with FULL loads when at coaling stage or when more heat is desired.

Give it a shot.

 

[Wood Duck]

I have a similar problem sometimes. If I shut the primary air down too much I get some soot on the glass, and also tend to get more leftover coals than I want. If I leave the primary air a little more open I burn the coals down more and have clean glass, but the burn isn't as long as it would be with the primary air shut down. I usually opt for the cleanest burn rather than the longest burn I can get.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I'm hoping you all can assist me in understanding a user error I am probably performing on our stove ... it seems that my glass only gets dirty at the end of overnight loads. I typically wait until all the firewood that I loaded looks like good glowing coals and then adjust the air control from half open to completely closed and then go to bed but almost every morning when I wake I see that the glass got dirty overnight especially on the edges. Is this something that I'm doing the wrong way and if so what should I do differently? Thanks.

Why would you wait until you have glowing coals to turn the draft down? Waiting that long sends a big portion of your heat right up the chimney and I'd be amazed if you weren't heating that chimney too much!

Typically, one would begin to dial down the draft once the wood was charred and not when it is already at the coaling stage. Most would close the draft to about 50% then and after 10-20 minutes (more or less) close the draft a bit further but rarely close the draft all the way.

I also agree with BeGreen in that your wood is suspect because at the end of the burn cycle there isn't much left there that could dirty the glass or anything else. Perhaps that glass is getting dirty while you are sleeping and you just notice it when you get up.

Why would I do that, well, just cause I don't know any better apparently. I'm not saying that defensively, just honestly. But just to clarify any confusion I'm also saying that I load about 1/2 load, start it with one small fire starter (Rutland Fire Starter Square), leave the air completely open for about twenty minutes, then close the air to 1/2 open until the wood starts to settle, then open the air to completely open for about thirty seconds, add more wood and repeat. I can basically do that until whenever I want to stop and then I'm completely closing the air for the overnight thing.

So when I say I'm waiting to turn the draft down only after having glowing coals, I'm saying I'm waiting to go from 1/2 open to completely closed; I absolutely have to go to 1/2 open within twenty minutes or so of startup or I'd run the stove too high.

Again I think starting tomorrow (for an all day burn) I'm going to repeat the above but as soon as the added wood gets good and charred I'll close the air to 25% and see what happens with that. I'm also going to get the moisture meter and check all my assumptions there too. Add lastly I'm going to try never completely closing the air control as I was doing before; as mentioned above, I'll try leaving just that oval slot open if that seems sensible and see how the stove reacts. I'm still learning the concept of containing as much heat in the stove as opposed to releasing it into the chimney. Again I appreciate everyone's advice.

Turbo, it sounds like you will get a handle on this thing really quick. Keep experimenting and enjoy the heat. fwiw, we've burned wood for many, many moons and we still has a bit of learning to do when we bought the Fireview. Thankfully, it was a short learning curve and we quickly fell in love with the stove. Methinks you will do the same.

 

[turbocruiser]

Turbo, it sounds like you will get a handle on this thing really quick. Keep experimenting and enjoy the heat. fwiw, we've burned wood for many, many moons and we still has a bit of learning to do when we bought the Fireview. Thankfully, it was a short learning curve and we quickly fell in love with the stove. Methinks you will do the same.

Thanks for the encouragement! And thanks to all the fine folks here including yourself who put up with my many wonderings, I do feel like I'm learning more and more each minute. Sooner or later I'll get a great routine going with the stove. Cheers.

 

[BrotherBart]

Plain simple fact. The primary air is what lets air in to the airwash over the glass. Close it all the way down and the glass is gonna get crapped up because of no airwash. Sure the next blazing hot fire with secondary flames blasting over the the glass will burn off most of it. But why have it there in the first place.

Ask the guy that only has to clean his glass every two months or so whether it needs it or not. I never shut primary air all the way down.

 

[yooperdave]

now the only indoor stove i have is a little nc-13, but i can't agree more with bart...i have never shut the air down all the way.
doesn't sound like anything else is the problem, except for the lack of primary air being shut down completely.
good luck

 

[turbocruiser]

Thanks again folks and let me add an update to this ... last night prior to loading or lighting the stove I picked several specific settings for the air control and I did this by looking at the air intake area (the pic I posted above) from below and correlating that to where the air control lever lines up from above. I marked two settings to start (so along with full open and full closed I have 4 settings) the first setting is 50% of the triangle's area and the second setting is just that oval area above the triangle and I'd estimate that at around 5 - 10% additional air. Then there is that other hole that cannot be closed that is connected to that primary air intake area. That hole is 1/4 diameter.

I then loaded the stove to what I would call "full" and you all would probably call 3/4; I had about 8 2-4 inch splits criss-crossed and also some smaller thicker stuff sitting off wherever there was space. I used my one square fire starter as always and left the air control at 100% for 14 minutes. Then I went to the 50% setting for another 14 minutes and started getting almost giddy about how well everything was going. The firebox was full of flame and the wood was getting good and charred but not coaling yet. At that 28 minute mark I went to where the level aligned with only having that small oval slot open and I saw the strongest most amazing secondary burn shooting out of the tubes from one side to the other side! It was wonderful, for about another 30 minutes, and then man-o-man did the temps start to rise too much; it went from cruising at around 500 F to climbing to 600, 700, 800 really rather quickly. At 700 I turned the air to about half of the oval slot and then at 800 I turned the air all the way down. At 850 I started getting skeered and at 888 I did what I read about here on hearth and opened the door to take the secondary air system "offline", flush with fresh cooler air, and cool off the stove, stove pipe and chimney pipe. I did that for a few minutes maybe less and then closed the door with the primary air control completely closed other than that one hole that cannot be closed.

Happily I managed to do this all while not soiling my shorts! The stove settled in at about 650 and I let the thing slowly shut down without adding any additional wood. Needless to say the glass is completely clean this morning but man I don't wanna do that again ... the stove didn't seem to mind at all but I definitely did! So I think that all along up until now when I was working with small 1/2 loads loosely stacked and running at 1/2 open air, I was really just making small hot fires and even the smaller sized stove was just jogging along at 700 but when it was a larger load of wood, 1/2 open air is just incredibly too much, even that one small oval slot is too much and I think I'm going to get to where I load the thing up, give it good 15 minutes full open, then 15 minutes 1/2 open, then go to that small oval slot just for a few moments but then as soon as charring is complete but before coaling I turn the thing "off" and leave only that one small hole open to feed the fire. Does that sound sensible or am I still missing something?

Lastly, one thing that I'd like to especially thank everyone for is taking the time to help me understand why opening the door totally will help when something such as this happens! I have no idea how much higher than 888 the stove would have gone to then ... perhaps it would have slowly started lowering the temps but I just dunno! In any case another very appreciated example of how helpful hearth is!

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you are starting to get the hang of things. Try some bigger splits next fire.

PS: Time to add your stove to your signature.

 

[turbocruiser]

Sounds like you are starting to get the hang of things. Try some bigger splits next fire.

PS: Time to add your stove to your signature.

Really, I thought it was my worst "performance" yet! I really was worried with that 888 temperature even though the tech at Regency told me that was the higher end of what I'd want, but not damaging or dangerous as such!?! Thoughts on that are welcomed and again all my temperature references are right at the transition point from the firebox to the chimney connector using an IR Laser Thermometer. Thanks.

 

[shawneyboy]

Sounds like you are getting the hang of the stove. As BG said bigger splits and perhaps you need the first "14 minutes" (not 15....jk) to go to half, then go 5 mins later to 3/4 then 5 more to as far closed as the stove will allow. It almost sounds like you waited to long and got a ton of off gassing going. You may, I stress MAY, not need to wait so long. I know I can be completely shut down and in cruise mode within 30 mins most times.

I think this would be better than open/half/closed as you propose because it will allow the secondary flames to stablilize.

Also, so you know, the draft and stove will act differently as we get further into the season.

Keep at it, you will figure it out, hopefully without having to change your shorts.

 

[begreen]

I think most of us have been where you are at one point. It takes time to learn how to burn well. A woodstove is not like a gas appliance, there is some art and science to burning well. That's what makes it fun and interesting.

 

[turbocruiser]

Sounds like you are getting the hang of the stove. As BG said bigger splits and perhaps you need the first "14 minutes" (not 15....jk) to go to half, then go 5 mins later to 3/4 then 5 more to as far closed as the stove will allow. It almost sounds like you waited to long and got a ton of off gassing going. You may, I stress MAY, not need to wait so long. I know I can be completely shut down and in cruise mode within 30 mins most times.

I think this would be better than open/half/closed as you propose because it will allow the secondary flames to stablilize.

Also, so you know, the draft and stove will act differently as we get further into the season.

Keep at it, you will figure it out, hopefully without having to change your shorts.

Yes, it is sort of silly to get that precise 14 minutes but it's because I had sort of set my mind on 15 minute increments but while I was actually watching the fire take off I thought to myself "I can't wait one minute more" for those two cycles! It was totally taking off!

I think you are absolutely correct about allowing the air too open too long and then getting off gassing galore! That was powerful proof of how effective and efficient the secondary system can be. Wow!

I also think you are absolutely correct about not waiting so long so that is what I will try next time. I'd rather have to restart the fire or restoke the fire and not go through the overfire option again!