Goodbye to EPA exempt woodstoves

[peakbagger]

I don't think many folks on this site would be running one but I didn't realize that as of the first of the year, new EPA exempt woodstoves can no longer be sold. There regs only apply to wood stoves so coal stoves can still be sold so I expect some folks if they really want an exempt stove will try to figure a way to burn wood in a coal stove.

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/12/...ainers-fade-from-stores-as-new-rules-kick-in/

Plenty of used stoves will remain on the market for years..

I expect the majority of the folks who bought exempt stoves do not realize what "exempt" meant and how much extra wood they were burning every year if they bought one.

 

[Warm_in_NH]

The 2020 regs of 2.0 g/hr. dont seem too crazy when I look at the Shelburne which is currently 2.1 g/hr. But when I look at the Oslo listed at 3.2g/hr., seems like may go the same way as the stoves in the story....

 

[mark cline]

We are constantly saddled with restrictions, etc from our government . But over in China , they had to shut down entire cities a few days ago because the pollution was so bad . Airports closed due to the thick smog and people required to stay in doors until the wind blows it all over to our side of the world.

 

[zig]

We are constantly saddled with restrictions, etc from our government . But over in China , they had to shut down entire cities a few days ago because the pollution was so bad . Airports closed due to the thick smog and people required to stay in doors until the wind blows it all over to our side of the world.

But to be fair, the population of China is like 2 per sq. ft. There would be half a million living in your 175 acre wood plot.

 

[mass_burner]

We are constantly saddled with restrictions, etc from our government . But over in China , they had to shut down entire cities a few days ago because the pollution was so bad . Airports closed due to the thick smog and people required to stay in doors until the wind blows it all over to our side of the world.

Yea, who needs safe food, clean drinking water, and unpolluted air!

 

[jeff_t]

I expect the majority of the folks who bought exempt stoves do not realize what "exempt" meant and how much extra wood they were burning every year if they bought one.

I like how they are often advertised as 'meeting EPA requirements' or something similar, instead of 'qualifies for exemption'.

Forbidding the sale of exempt stoves will still do nothing to help the average joe burn a compliant stove properly.

 

[axeman628]

Forbidding the sale of exempt stoves will still do nothing to help the average joe burn a compliant stove properly.

And that's the key right there. Regulations and technical specs get everyone all warm and fuzzy but that doesn't stop someone from putting green wood in their EPA stove and smoking out the neighbors.

 

[jatoxico]

Interesting that in the last paragraph the article states pellet stove sales are through the roof. According to what I read here, many pellet burners are on the fence about buying and burning pellets at current prices considering the price of oil. Current stock is said to not be moving and some makers are slowing production. Are retailers maintaining prices knowing a glut of new users are coming on-line or is the stories source is off base?, cause something doesn't jibe.

 

[peakbagger]

I agree that the section about pellet stoves appears to be dated, of course it comes down to time scale probably year by year numbers are skyrocketing but month to month I expect a big drop off . I expect that few folks will be buying pellet (or even wood stoves) given the price of alternatives). Probably going to be a good year to troll Craigslist for used stoves.

 

[tcassavaugh]

i know this is probably going to stir some folks up but...... i have an EPA compliant stove but there were years when i had a home made stove or a barrel stove because i couldn't afford the sometimes outrageous prices the manufacturing company wanted for their EPA rated stove. I think the right to stay warm trumps the necessity to have a mandated stove. some folks can barely make it by and have an old smoke dragon or one of the newer less efficient stoves cause that's all they can afford. they cut their own wood cause they can or because they can't afford to buy it. i understand the move toward more efficient stoves but i think there needs to be an exception to the rule other than trying to find a used stove. jmho

 

[DanCorcoran]

Reminds me of auto manufacturers. Back in 1975, they complained mightily how difficult and expensive it would be to design cars that would meet a corporate average fuel efficiency (CAFE) of 18 mpg by 1978. In 2011, the standard was 30.2 for cars and they were meeting it just fine. Now they're worried about all-electric vehicles... But folks can still drive their 1975 Chevy Vegas as long as they want!

 

[BrotherBart]

Heck it was the same even when seat belts were mandated in the seventies. Then in 1973 when unleaded gas was mandated and in 1975 CAFE mileage standards were established, and 1988 when EPA standards were invoked for wood stoves and...

 

[peakbagger]

i know this is probably going to stir some folks up but...... i have an EPA compliant stove but there were years when i had a home made stove or a barrel stove because i couldn't afford the sometimes outrageous prices the manufacturing company wanted for their EPA rated stove. I think the right to stay warm trumps the necessity to have a mandated stove. some folks can barely make it by and have an old smoke dragon or one of the newer less efficient stoves cause that's all they can afford. they cut their own wood cause they can or because they can't afford to buy it. i understand the move toward more efficient stoves but i think there needs to be an exception to the rule other than trying to find a used stove. jmho

I don't agree, there are a lot of great used stoves out there that may not be EPA compliant that are going to be lot more efficient than the EPA exempt stoves for the same or less cost. My old VC sitting in reserve may not be EPA compliant but when I switched from a Fisher clone my wood usage dropped by about a third. I expect that even my old Fisher clone would be more efficient than a modern EPA exempt stove. The EPA exempt stoves I have seen are just plain cheap with crappy castings and air leaks everywhere. They are just chimney fires waiting to happen. Anytime something is designed and marketed around a loophole its a pretty good indication that the manufacturer is just in it for the bucks and could care less about the customer.

 

[FTG-05]

i know this is probably going to stir some folks up but...... i have an EPA compliant stove but there were years when i had a home made stove or a barrel stove because i couldn't afford the sometimes outrageous prices the manufacturing company wanted for their EPA rated stove. I think the right to stay warm trumps the necessity to have a mandated stove. some folks can barely make it by and have an old smoke dragon or one of the newer less efficient stoves cause that's all they can afford. they cut their own wood cause they can or because they can't afford to buy it. i understand the move toward more efficient stoves but i think there needs to be an exception to the rule other than trying to find a used stove. jmho

Where is this "right to stay warm" located in the US Constitution, I can't find it.

People aren't poor because the price of a wood stove i.e. $650 for a brand new Englander 30-NC. People are poor because of stupid life decisions.

 

[bholler]

People aren't poor because the price of a wood stove i.e. $650 for a brand new Englander 30-NC. People are poor because of stupid life decisions.

Well that is a bit of an oversimplification. People are poor for allot more reasons than stupid life decisions. But i do agree there are now pretty good low priced options available.

 

[begreen]

Reminds me of auto manufacturers. Back in 1975, they complained mightily how difficult and expensive it would be to design cars that would meet a corporate average fuel efficiency (CAFE) of 18 mpg by 1978. In 2011, the standard was 30.2 for cars and they were meeting it just fine. Now they're worried about all-electric vehicles... But folks can still drive their 1975 Chevy Vegas as long as they want!

Every time I have to drive behind an old pre-CAFE gas burner I am reminded at how grateful I am that emissions have been cleaned up. The difference is day and night.

 

[pdxdave]

The 2020 regs of 2.0 g/hr. dont seem too crazy when I look at the Shelburne which is currently 2.1 g/hr. But when I look at the Oslo listed at 3.2g/hr., seems like may go the same way as the stoves in the story....

Pfff.. 2.0 ??
My stove does just 1.04 !

 

[axeman628]

How do they measure g/hr? What's the lowest for a non-cat stove?

 

[tcassavaugh]

I don't agree, there are a lot of great used stoves out there that may not be EPA compliant that are going to be lot more efficient than the EPA exempt stoves for the same or less cost. My old VC sitting in reserve may not be EPA compliant but when I switched from a Fisher clone my wood usage dropped by about a third. I expect that even my old Fisher clone would be more efficient than a modern EPA exempt stove. The EPA exempt stoves I have seen are just plain cheap with crappy castings and air leaks everywhere. They are just chimney fires waiting to happen. Anytime something is designed and marketed around a loophole its a pretty good indication that the manufacturer is just in it for the bucks and could care less about the customer.

ok, i accept your disagreement. but i still think that i should be able to use a barrel stove to heat a garage or workshop or even your house if i want to or even one of those cheap box stoves. i agree that the design is lacking and it could catch fire but a CAT stove burning green wood is just as susceptible to causing a chimney fire if the owner does not know how to properly burn or season their fuel. i have a VC sitting in reserve too for about 4 years now, some day i might get rid of it.

 

[begreen]

There are several very clean burning non-cats. The Harman TL300 and Quad 3100 ACC +4300 ACC are 1.1. Englander's 30NC is 1.6 as is the Country Striker S160, The Heritage and Manchester come in at 1.3g/h,

 

[tcassavaugh]

There are several very clean burning non-cats. The Country Winslow models are like 1.1g, Harman TL300 and Quad 3100 ACC +4300 ACC are also 1.1. Englander's 30NC is 1.6 as is the Country Striker S160, The Heritage and Manchester come in at 1.3g/h,

i agree, i have two.....a summit and a Jotul...... coming from a long long history of burning wood stoves......my grandmother cooked on a wood fired cook stove, my parents had a Montgomery wards wood stove, i had home made wood stoves long ago along with a barrel stove, VCs, Jotuls and PEs. i believe it is more an operator understanding of the potential of problems and prevent them by proper clearance to combustibles, proper cleaning and good wood burning practices. maybe i just don't like being mandated. there are used wood stoves too, i know but i know that sometimes extra cash is hard to come by so you opt for what you can afford. once again, jmho

 

[begreen]

Looks like we cross-posted. It was in response to this question:

How do they measure g/hr? What's the lowest for a non-cat stove?

Testing method is here: http://www3.epa.gov/ttnemc01/promgate/m-28.pdf

 

[heavy hammer]

With the new regulations many people will not be happy. They are not going to make you get rid of the stoves that don't meet the requirements. You just won't be able to buy them new anymore. Look at diesel motors, they all have DEF or some kind of regen system on them, but the older versions are still out there. The good stove companies will survive, they will find a way. They will just have to figure it out. I'm not saying I agree with the new regulations but the EPA seems to get their way. Burning wood has been around since the beginning of time for man I don't believe it will be going away any time soon no matter what the new rules are.

 

[bfitz3]

But to be fair, the population of China is like 2 per sq. ft. There would be half a million living in your 175 acre wood plot.

I appreciate hyperbole, but this is a bit much. We are better for our clean air, our clean water, and have to work less for our clean stoves. The upfront costs are greater, but life is priceless as time is irreplaceable.

 

[CheapBassTurd]

Definitely in the learning curve here.
Me n' mama just picked up a United States Stove #2421 (Chinese casting) that was WAY on sale
a few weeks ago. Listed as EPA exempt under method 28A, whatever that is. Did I mention learning
curve? The "pig" is a two burner potbelly three feet deep, 20" wide, 22" height. The internal size will
come down with the addition of the base slab and side bricks.
The main thing is those pesky 500+ dollar monthly bills just to be warm. For $125 a week savings I'll
be happy to do the work in bringing down our costs. (She and I both work full time positions and just
make the bills as it is.)
This why peeps and myself call me the Cheapster. lol
I have SO much to learn before blowing the house up, and it looks like everything I need is here.
Great site, fellas!