Grates in woodstoves.

[eyefish2]

I am looking at woodstoves and would prefer to get one that has a grate with good open area for ashes to fall through. From what I have found so far, the Jotul Oslo looks to have a pretty good system for this and a good large sized ash pan. I looked at the PE Alderlea T5 and this stove looks to have a small opening for the ashes to fall through and a relatively small ash pan. I would imagine the Alderlea stove may keep the coals longer by not allowing the ashes/coals to drop into the pan as easy.

Couple questions. 1) what are the advantages and disadvantages of having an open grate. 2) what other stoves have an open grate like the Oslo. The drawing I saw looked like it was approx 6" by 9" or 9" by 11" (hard to tell).

I am new to the site and have really learned alot about stoves. I am considering purchasing a inexpensive stove to get a feel for how many BTU's I need without cooking myself out of the house. We are putting a 400 sq foot addition (living room) onto an existing 1100 sq foot house. Will have approx 800-900 sq feet "open" that will get good heat from the stove.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[North of 60]

What ever stove you purchase, your owners manual will be your friend. Please read it top to bottom.
Welcome to the hearth.

 

[woodchip]

It's worth going onto the makers websites, many have pdf versions of the owners manuals on there which can give a lot of help to intending purchasers.

As far as the amount of btu's you need, you need to think of insulation, minimum outside temperatures, and whether your stove is to complement an existing system or standalone to provide you with your entire heating requirements.

Ours has an open grate with a smallish ashbox, it was bought with the idea of complementing our gas fired furnace, and soon became our only heating when gas prices went through the roof.........

Just one thought on wood, whatever stove you buy, get your wood in soon so it can dry a bit over the summer, all new stoves work best with well seasoned wood, and most really sulk without really good dry stuff (3 years seasoning or more).

And a warm welcome to the forum

 

[Fsappo]

If you dont want to go crazy geeking out on stove sizes, just stick with a mid sized stove and you'll be fine. Something 2.2-2.6 CF firebox will give you an overnight burn and plenty of heat.

In regards to the ash pans, I burn 8 wood stoves in my showroom (not all at once) The stoves that have a little hole to push the ashes thru to the ash pan..I just wait for maybe 10-15 days worth of burning and shovel them out when they get cold. Stoves with full ash grates, like your seeking can be great, IF the actual ash pan design is good. The issue with some ash pans is you pull them out and walk someplace with them. Walking about with those ashpans makes a mess. Some stoves have a slide on ash pan cover that fits snug over the ashpan as soon as you take it out.

In the showroom I'm not so concerned. The place is huge and gets dusty anyhow. If I had a wood stove in my home in a nice room, I would not bother with an ash pan unless it had a cover. What I would do is shovel the ashes slowly into a metal bucket once a week between burns, and keep an ash vac hose near the top of the bucket to catch the stuff that wants to fly.

In closing, if you buy an Oslo and your not a total tool, you'll probably feel like you bought the perfect stove.

Not sure about Jotul, but just about all stove makers have at least announced their price increases. So cut a deal on something in stock soon, get the stove out of the way. Also, go back in time one year and get your wood cut, split, stacked, for this coming season. EPA Stoves like the good seasoned wood.

 

[certified106]

I am looking at woodstoves and would prefer to get one that has a grate with good open area for ashes to fall through. From what I have found so far, the Jotul Oslo looks to have a pretty good system for this and a good large sized ash pan. I looked at the PE Alderlea T5 and this stove looks to have a small opening for the ashes to fall through and a relatively small ash pan. I would imagine the Alderlea stove may keep the coals longer by not allowing the ashes/coals to drop into the pan as easy.

Couple questions. 1) what are the advantages and disadvantages of having an open grate. 2) what other stoves have an open grate like the Oslo. The drawing I saw looked like it was approx 6" by 9" or 9" by 11" (hard to tell).

I am new to the site and have really learned alot about stoves. I am considering purchasing a inexpensive stove to get a feel for how many BTU's I need without cooking myself out of the house. We are putting a 400 sq foot addition (living room) onto an existing 1100 sq foot house. Will have approx 800-900 sq feet "open" that will get good heat from the stove.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I think that most ash pans are overrated and don't work all that great. I had a Dutchwest for years that had the shaker grate and a decent sized ash pan however I found the stove ran better with a bed of ashes in the fire box so I never shook it down and would just rake the hot ashes to the side and clean out the other stuff I didn't want every 10 -14 days. I now have a PE and I never intend to use the ash pan on it and I just packed the ashes down into the ash chute in fact I might get a fire brick to put over top of it. With the huge front door on the T5 and T6 it should be a cakewalk to clean those stoves out. I know alot of times when you are first looking at stoves the ash pans seem like such a great idea but in the end it's still the same amount of work and just as easy to shovel the stove out every once in awhile. In fact once you get the hang of it it's not that hard to place the ash in a bucket without creating a dust cloud. As far as stoves go I really like my T6 (larger version of the T5) and it seems that most people on here really like the Oslo. They are both very good stoves and I don't think you could go wrong with either one of them. Good Luck

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I am looking at woodstoves and would prefer to get one that has a grate with good open area for ashes to fall through. From what I have found so far, the Jotul Oslo looks to have a pretty good system for this and a good large sized ash pan. I looked at the PE Alderlea T5 and this stove looks to have a small opening for the ashes to fall through and a relatively small ash pan. I would imagine the Alderlea stove may keep the coals longer by not allowing the ashes/coals to drop into the pan as easy.

Couple questions. 1) what are the advantages and disadvantages of having an open grate. 2) what other stoves have an open grate like the Oslo. The drawing I saw looked like it was approx 6" by 9" or 9" by 11" (hard to tell).

I am new to the site and have really learned alot about stoves. I am considering purchasing a inexpensive stove to get a feel for how many BTU's I need without cooking myself out of the house. We are putting a 400 sq foot addition (living room) onto an existing 1100 sq foot house. Will have approx 800-900 sq feet "open" that will get good heat from the stove.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Welcome to the forum eyefish2.

I have no idea why you are so concerned with having a stove with a grate and an ash pan. In short, it is not needed! We've had several stoves with ash pans but our current stove has none and this is by far the best stove we've ever owned. If it is because of your concern over emptying ashes, let that not bother you any longer as you will find that emptying ashes from a stove with no ash pan is very easy. You will also find many folks who do have stoves with ash pans simply do not use them! They let them fill and then use the stove as if it had no ash pan at all. With an ash pan, many times one big problem is you do not have enough ash in the firebox and the fire will burn better if there are a couple inches of ash in there.

If you have learned a lot about stoves, then I do not understand why you feel the need for purchasing an inexpensive stove just to determine how many btu's you will need. It can be rather easy to determine what size you need and why go cheap with something that has a big fire inside and that fire is inside your home? Get the right stove first and save yourself the hassle of getting another stove later. I've never liked the idea of "entry level" things which to me spells cheap but won't last long nor give you what you really want.

For the size you are looking at I would highly recommend a Woodstock Fireview. Yes, it is perhaps more than you would like to spend but it will last a lifetime. In addition to that you will not have to be concerned about roasting yourself because heat from a soapstone stove feels a lot different from the harsh type heat you can get from a steel stove. Not that the steel stoves give off bad heat because they can feel mighty good when you come inside during the cold and back up against that heat but soapstone heat does feel different. It is described as a soft heat. I thought it was pure baloney at first but now I understand that it is indeed different and a good thing too.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[certified106]

Hahaha, Backwoods it looks like we were typing the same thing at about the same time......
+1 on everything Dennis says except for the buying the Fireview ;-P
See what I did... i agree with you on just about everything including how to split so I gotta find something to argue about

 

[Backwoods Savage]

We'll excuse you this time certified! At least you know how to properly split wood. lol


eyefish2, one thing I did not touch on in the above post but I should have is talking about your fuel. Regardless if you plan on cutting your own wood or buying, you should already have next winter's wood supply cut, split and stacked out in the wind so it can dry. Also be aware that different types of woods require different drying times and in your first year of burning I would recommend staying away from oak. We don't try to burn oak unless it has seasoned 3 years (maybe 2 years in a pinch if it is handled properly). Some wood you can cut in spring and burn the following winter but it is not the best practice.

I recommend having 2-3 years wood supply on hand always and that will take away 90% of all burning problems. If you stick around heart.com very long you will find that the fuel is the number 1 problem with new wood burners. Most just scoff at this idea at first but soon come around to realizing that to have a good fire you need good fuel. So most will barely squeeze through their first year of wood burning but many will find it more bother than it is worth. If they had good fuel then they would be happy. So do yourself a favor and get your wood before you get your stove. And do not believe a wood seller when he says the wood he sells is seasoned. 99.9% of the time it is not. And wood generally does not start to dry before it has been split so seasoning time starts after it has been cut to length and split then stacked out where the wind will help dry the wood.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

First off, welcome to the site . . . keep reading . . . you should have days of reading ahead of you . . . there's lots of good information here.

Gotta respectfully disagree with Franks about the only good ash pan being a covered ash pan . . . the Oslo has a decent ash pan, but it is not covered . . . and when dumping it outside in my ash can I don't end up with any ash flying about the house . . . of course I'm also not running outside or flailing around like a hyperactive kid in a candy store . . . truthfully . . . I get more of a mess from the ash when I attempt to sweep some of it off the hearth.

In case you haven't picked up on it yet . . . I'll say it again . . . getting well seasoned wood is crucial . . . garbage in, garbage out . . . you feed the best woodstove in the world with wood that still has too much moisture in it and you'll end up with a creosoted chimney, blacked glass, the wood will not ignite easily and once lit the wood will spit and hiss and you will not get the heat that you expect . . . every Fall we get folks here complaining about their new stove and how it doesn't heat their house . . . and 9 out of 10 times I would guess it is unseasoned wood that is the problem . . . even though the same folks will claim that they bought seasoned wood from their dealer. . . .

Grates . . . Jotul Oslo grates are great . . . same goes for the ash pan. However, as Dennis mentioned I wouldn't make whether a stove has a grate or not to be the determining factor in buying a stove . . . same for the ash pan . . . reliablity to me is important . . . and perhaps the most important aspect is that you get a stove sized for your home. Many of the other features in my mind -- warmer trays, cooking tops, enamel vs. paint (even though I wish I had the blue black enamel), time machine add-on, etc. -- are just extras which may or may not sway you to one model over another. Size of the Oslo grate? Beats me . . . never measured it. I do know it works well . . . all the coals will not automatically drop down between the grates . . . which means you will not lose your coals all the time . . . rather they get fetched up and generally only fall down into the ash pan as ash . . . and often this may only occur when you stir the ashes . . . don't stir it too much and you'll keep the large coals in the firebox where they belong.

Starter stove . . . my own opinion . . . buy once, but buy the right size . . . even "cheap" stoves can be pricey . . . I mean to say, if you cannot afford the fancy schmancy stove of your dreams right now, that's understandable, but you don't want to lay out $500-$1500 to experiment on getting the right stove for you. If you buy a car and you don't like it since it doesn't fit your needs, you can usually sell it pretty easily and get another . . . or just make do. If you get a stove that is too small you will have a long, cold winter . . . and the market for folks buying used stoves is most likely a bit smaller than the market for used cars. Size your stove to your home . . . and go one size larger. Keep in mind your home's construction (open vs. closed lay-out), insulation (lots or little), local conditions (windy, wicked cold, cold for just a few weeks out of the year, etc.)

The Oslo is a great stove . . . many of us Osloites love 'em . . . but there are also many other fantastic stoves out there as well. Keep an open mind . . . and keep reading. Incidentally, awhile back I wrote a primer -- a FAQ of sorts -- for folks who have questions about wood burning when they are just starting out . . . if you look around you might find it.

 

[leeave96]

Not sure what size stove you are looking for - maybe I just missed it, but...

Some folks have ash pan set-ups that don't work so good and others have none. They have no problems with scooping out the ashes.

I have the Woodstock Keystone (which is a smaller 1.4 cu ft stove which is why I was asking what size stove you are looking for) and it has slots that run along the floor of the stove and do a great job of allowing ash to fall into a very well designed/useful ash pan.

I think the new hybrid stove Woodstock is working will have a similar set-up.

I think that one of the things that contributed to Todd trading his Fireview for the Keystone was the ash pan set-up.

I like the ash pan vs scooping ashes. It keeps the dust down, I don't have to let the fire go down and I can get about 3 days of 24 hr hard burns in one ash pan load.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[Fsappo]

I'm 99% sure Jake just said that when I carry ashes from the stove to the pail outside, that I flail around like I'm doing the Pee Wee Herman dance. That aside, your getting advice and opinions from a lot of wood burning veterans here. Thats what it's all about.

I'll say it again, You'll never dissapointed that you bought an Oslo.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

The Jotul Oslo is a great stove. It seems a little big for the area you describe but you can always use less wood when you don't need the maximum heat output. Stoves with grates and ash pans area easier to clean in general but you usually have to do it more often. Stoves without grates and ash pans have to be scooped out, which is not as convenient and lets more ash drift into the room.

 

[Todd]

Yep Bill's right, I traded in my Fireview mostly for the ash pan system of the the Keystone along with imo the better looks and larger glass. I think your right on target looking for a good ash pan system. I don't care what anybody says, scooping ashes out will lead to a mess. If your real careful you might not bump your shovel against the stove door or bucket and spill ash but eventually you will make a mess. My stove room is much less messy since I swapped my stove out.

As far as stoves go Jotul is a great stove but the Oslo may be too big? Maybe the the Castine would be a better fit? Most people here always preach bigger is better but I don't always agree with that. A bigger stove can look out of place in a smaller home and you can easily be over heated.

Take a look at Woodstock, probably the same price as the Jotul and they will give you a longer more controllable burn.

 

[Fsappo]

I must interject (is that even a word?) Get the Oslo. I burned a similar sized stove in a similar sized home. With very little practice you'll learn:

When in the "living space" when your not looking for overnight burns, just toss a log or two in there every couple hours. At night when you want the 10 hour burn, pack it and shut it down. You'll wake up to a nice bed of hot coals in the morning. That itself is a wonderful feeling. If you notice the bedrooms getting a little warm at night, just shut the door.

Also with the Oslo the side door works better than a puppy's pecker for those extra long logs that were not really the 16" promised.

 

[Todd]

When in the "living space" when your not looking for overnight burns, just toss a log or two in there every couple hours. At night when you want the 10 hour burn, pack it and shut it down.

I don't agree with this. EPA non cat stoves requires a hot fire for a clean burn. Throwing 1 or 2 logs in there won't bring the fire box up to temp to create a secondary burn and could make more creosote. I think your better off with a properly sized stove where you can fill the box and control the heat output with the air control.

 

[certified106]

When in the "living space" when your not looking for overnight burns, just toss a log or two in there every couple hours. At night when you want the 10 hour burn, pack it and shut it down.

I don't agree with this. EPA non cat stoves requires a hot fire for a clean burn. Throwing 1 or 2 logs in there won't bring the fire box up to temp to create a secondary burn and could make more creosote. I think your better off with a properly sized stove where you can fill the box and control the heat output with the air control.

You might be surprised (I know I was) that a 2 or 3 split fire in my PE will light the secondaries off with no problem in fact during this spring where I only wanted a small amount of heat in the evening I was primarily burning 3 small splits per night and had secondaries with no smoke coming out of the chimney.

 

[yooperdave]

welcome aboard eyefish! what part of the u.p. are you in??? just a couple weeks (or so) till walleyes!
the grates sure aren't necessary. years ago, i flip-flopped back and forth between the two types-grates vs. non grates. (used them both at different places.) with the grates, you are able to empty the ash pan while the stove is burning...this allows some hot coals into the ash pan-not a good thing. also, with grates, they will eventually fail...collapse or break due to the operating temps and the adding of wood. this is leads to a replacement cost. with non-grates, you will have to replace an occasional fire brick. the fire is also "out" when you empty ashes. i prefer non-grates.
next- have you previous experience burning? do you have a stove now? if you are near a home depot, go and make them an offer on the stoves, as they will be depleting their remaining stock and wood stoves will be available only online from them. (thats what 4 different home depots told me).
next, get a start on your wood pile, cuz these new stoves are pretty finicky when it comes to burning. the wood has to be very very dry. most members on this site, have their wood cut and split up for at least 2-3 years in advance...some of them have about 6-7 years of wood piled up and ready to go!!

keep in touch and let us know the outcome of your decision. remember, you'll have more questions, and this is the place to get good advice, whatever you decide.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

yooperdave, how is your new stove working out for you? Have you got rid of the snow yet? Danged weather! We're back in the 30's again for nights but supposed to get one or two days of warmer before cooler again.

 

[Mt Ski Bum]

We're back in the 30's again for nights but supposed to get one or two days of warmer before cooler again.

We're in the teens for nights... tomorrow is supposed to be a high of 29...

 

[Backwoods Savage]

We will bless you if you will please keep it out there! No wonder the air feels so chilled.

 

[grommal]

When in the "living space" when your not looking for overnight burns, just toss a log or two in there every couple hours. At night when you want the 10 hour burn, pack it and shut it down.

I don't agree with this. EPA non cat stoves requires a hot fire for a clean burn. Throwing 1 or 2 logs in there won't bring the fire box up to temp to create a secondary burn and could make more creosote. I think your better off with a properly sized stove where you can fill the box and control the heat output with the air control.

You might be surprised (I know I was) that a 2 or 3 split fire in my PE will light the secondaries off with no problem in fact during this spring where I only wanted a small amount of heat in the evening I was primarily burning 3 small splits per night and had secondaries with no smoke coming out of the chimney.

I think every stove will have a minimum fuel load that will keep things hot enough for secondary combustion. If assisted by a cat, that fuel load can probably be smaller. If non-cat, you basically need to keep the temperature in the firebox ceiling hot enough to ignite the gases. Depending on particulars of the stove design, and whether you're coming up from a cold start or already warm, the critical amount of fuel may be different. The dryer the wood is, the less will be needed to get the gases to ignite. With my Oslo, there's definitely a minimum load for clean burning, but it's not that big a load, especially with dry wood. Maybe 1/4 full. Other stoves may work well with even less, or require more.

 

[certified106]

yooperdave, how is your new stove working out for you? Have you got rid of the snow yet? Danged weather! We're back in the 30's again for nights but supposed to get one or two days of warmer before cooler again.

Dennis we had asummer about 2 or 3 years ago where we were wearing sweatshirts on the fourth of July. I hope it starts warming up for you soon. This weather is killing me this year as it's been nothing but rain every day. I haven't been able to split wood for about 2 weeks because of the torrential downpours and flooding every day.

 

[certified106]

When in the "living space" when your not looking for overnight burns, just toss a log or two in there every couple hours. At night when you want the 10 hour burn, pack it and shut it down.

I don't agree with this. EPA non cat stoves requires a hot fire for a clean burn. Throwing 1 or 2 logs in there won't bring the fire box up to temp to create a secondary burn and could make more creosote. I think your better off with a properly sized stove where you can fill the box and control the heat output with the air control.

You might be surprised (I know I was) that a 2 or 3 split fire in my PE will light the secondaries off with no problem in fact during this spring where I only wanted a small amount of heat in the evening I was primarily burning 3 small splits per night and had secondaries with no smoke coming out of the chimney.

I think every stove will have a minimum fuel load that will keep things hot enough for secondary combustion. If assisted by a cat, that fuel load can probably be smaller. If non-cat, you basically need to keep the temperature in the firebox ceiling hot enough to ignite the gases. Depending on particulars of the stove design, and whether you're coming up from a cold start or already warm, the critical amount of fuel may be different. The dryer the wood is, the less will be needed to get the gases to ignite. With my Oslo, there's definitely a minimum load for clean burning, but it's not that big a load, especially with dry wood. Maybe 1/4 full. Other stoves may work well with even less, or require more.

Grommal you are correct the biggest key to secondary burn action quickly is extremely dry wood. If anything is less than dry might as well forget about a partial load.

 

[Captain Hornet]

No one has said anything about coal. A stove must have grates to burn coal because the air has to come up from the bottom and through the fire. Many of the coal stoves are good wood burners but there are no solid bottom stoves that are coal burners. Could be you are thinking of a wood-coal combination stove. Not really a bad idea if you are short of good wood. Also, coal puts out more btu's than wood, again not bad in the heart of winter. Coal is a whole lot less trouble because you don't have to cut, split, stack and dry it but you do have to buy it. David.

 

[eyefish2]

Thanks for all the replies. Very, Very helpful. It is good to see a difference in opinions on the grate and ash pans. Tells me it is a matter of personal preference. YooperDave...I live in the Iron Mountain area. Looking forward to getting some walleyes this year.

I have heated our house with a wood furnace in the basement for 15 years (Energy King with forced air into our heat ducts, LP forced air for backup heat). This burner is in the opposite end of our house than where the new woodstove will be. If the new woodstove has sufficient heat and is not too hot in our 20 by 20 foot addition (open living room upstairs with two bedrooms in the basement), we will be using the wood furnace much less. The access to this addition will be a 14 foot wide open area from our kitchen and dining area. This open access should allow pretty good heating to the rest of the house from the woodstove. The reason we are getting the woodstove is for the "looks of it" and because I just like tending a fire. Still enjoy lighting up the wood furnace even at the end of the season.

I will be getting the firewood split soon and split small for next fall. I will not be purchasing an "experimental" stove as I was thinking. As pointed out, this does not make sense and just adds cost. I will also check the stoves at Home Depot in town. I see there is much discussion on one of the stoves they sell. I forget the name of it.