GSHP noise level

[pjf]

Hey people. Hoping someone can give me some insight before I take this further.

I have new neighbours that moved this past September, they're great people and it's quite obvious that they are house-proud. They recently installed (what I'm assuming) is a GSHP. (A trench was dug, and fancy "AC" dealie was installed.) The unit is about 20 feet away from the side of our house, which faces our kitchen window and a sliding patio door.

Now that the temperature has dropped the equipment is now heating the home.... and it's ANNOYING!! It sounds like someone is flying an small engine plane over our house for several hours a day.

Should these units be louder than air conditioners?

I've heard of people building fences and installing 'blankets'. Do these methods really work?

I guess I'm just looking for any advice or other peoples experiences with heat pumps and noise levels, dealing with neighbours etc.... anyone?


Thanks.

 

[Warm_in_NH]

I shall watch this thread as I have new neighbor and 24/7 spot lights in shining right in our window issues that were not quite sure how to deal with yet.

As with any neighbor issue, always best to approach it gingerly, bit also good to know what laws are or are not on your side going into it.

I would imagine a fence would definitely help, one closer to the unit with a sound deadening or directing design while still allowing air movement would work best. Maybe offer to split the cost....

 

[jb6l6gc]

If I was your Neighbour I wouldn't be putting out any cash for a fence. I'm sure the location is acceptable to local ordinances ie.lot lines etc.
Could it be your window and sliding door are not sealed very well or maybe your just being picky!

No offence and don't take it the wrong way but sounds like your problem not his. If you wanted peace and quiet maybe you should not live in an area so close to your neighbours

 

[peakbagger]

I am surprised that a GSHP would make significant noise as the pump and compressors are usually installed inside the heated space. I expect like any equipment, there are probably short cuts to make a cheap install but there is no reason this equipment should be noisy.

Sound reduction is bit of "black art" but it helps to visualize sound by dropping a pebbles in a pond on calm day. Sound propagates like the waves in the water except that the ripples are three dimensional. Hard surfaces can block the sound but they also reflect them. If the noisy unit is sitting next to a house, the siding on the house tends to bounce the sound back off the wall. You can build a wall between the noisy unit and where you want to reduce the noise but the reflected sound can still cause problems if there are a lot of reflective surfaces (like the wall). The alternative is to build sound absorbers, these typically capture the sound and it get lost by bumping around inside the sound absorber, unfortunately any openings in the enclosure will "leak" sound. There are high tech sound absorber barriers but the actual acoustic material doesn't hold up well to weather so its expensive. Generally the best sound absorber is an insulated enclosure with ducted ventilation that has bends in it with sound absorbers in the ducts for cooling. Vegetation can work like a sound barrier but unless you go with an evergreen, its far less effective in the winter. The other way to visualize sound reduction is to replace the noise source with light bulb on a dark night. If you stick a wall between the bulb and where you want the quiet, it will cut out some of the light but if the wall of the house is painted white you will still get reflected light. Paint is black and it will absorb the reflected light.

So your legal choices are;
Reduce the noise being generated, this would probably mean variable speed equipment and I expect most folks would not be willing to change out equipment for the sake of a neighbor.

Install an enclosure over the equipment.

Install walls on all four sides of the equipment that extend well up past the actual equipment. Sound will be reflected upwards and without reflective surfaces it will dissipate in the air Many folks just try the wall between the equipment and neighbor and rarely does it work well if they have a large reflective surface behind it.

I have couple of projects currently that involve installing jet turbine generators in rural locations with neighbors. We have to do two of the solutions, The equipment is installed inside an acoustic enclosure, inside a sound absorbent building and vents and ducts to the outdoors have bends in them and are lined with acoustic material.

 

[jb6l6gc]

So your legal choices are;
Reduce the noise being generated, this would probably mean variable speed equipment and I expect most folks would be willing to change out equipment for the sake of a neighbor.

Ya id change it at your cost. Quite expensive to go changing out new equipment

 

[jb6l6gc]

Where does it end. I love my neigbours don't get me wrong but if they started imposing their wishes on me regarding things on my
Property that aren't illegal or again local ordinances id tell
Em to go pound sand

 

[peakbagger]

I left out a very important "not" with respect to the neighbor willing to upgrade their equipment. I have edited the post to add this "not".

 

[velvetfoot]

I have couple of projects currently that involve installing jet turbine generators in rural locations with neighbors.

But there's probably eminent domain involved, "public necessity", less-well-heeled citizens, and perhaps, cooperative governments. Perhaps locating these projects closer to the greater concentration of ultimate users would be fairer.

 

[peakbagger]

They are combined heat and power plants attached to industrial sites, Distributed energy to the max. With the right noise controls, the neighbors don't even know they are there and we have to prove that the plants do not make a significant difference in noise at the property line . No eminent domain and the adjacent industrial plant is the ultimate user, it reduces the plants costs for power and thermal which means a better bottom line and a higher likelihood of those jobs staying local. The plants run well over 60% efficient and displace fuel oil to boot. No eminent domain needed.

 

[velvetfoot]

I guess the neighbors are used to it then they might not notice it. I'm a little sensitized cause they're shoving a gas pipeline and huge compressor station down our throats. Absolutely no benefit to we locals.

 

[jb6l6gc]

Could one benefit be that you have natural gas! It'd be nice if I could get them to run a pipeline so I could have service

 

[velvetfoot]

Not in the cards for us.

 

[peakbagger]

Even gas compressor stations can be made fairly quiet, depends on the zoning. Hopefully whoever sets the zoning rules in your area have a noise ordinance. spec it at 10 db incr3ease or less and most wont notice it once its commissioned.

Typically the only benefits are the property taxes and usually a few years after they build it they will go for a reduction. In my area there is major powerline proposed and the towns are negotiating payments in lieu of taxes that cant be changed for 20 years.

Our area has a large natural gas pipeline built about 15 years ago, its pretty innocuous but them again no compressor stations in the US, they bump it up to high pressure at the Canadian border and take the pressure drop all the way to Portland Maine.

 

[pjf]

If I was your Neighbour I wouldn't be putting out any cash for a fence. I'm sure the location is acceptable to local ordinances ie.lot lines etc.
Could it be your window and sliding door are not sealed very well or maybe your just being picky!

No offence and don't take it the wrong way but sounds like your problem not his. If you wanted peace and quiet maybe you should not live in an area so close to your neighbours

WOW!!

jb6l6gc, you must be mistaking me for someone who is a difficult neighbour. I live in a small group of houses 3km outside of a "town" on 3/4 of an acre. A town not much bigger than Cayuga. Most of my neighbours are on rural lots. I hear tractors, gun-shots, traffic, cows, dirtbikes, snowmobiles etc all day long. My next door neighbour loves to shoot his guns on Sunday's, he's a pretty cool guy. I have no issue with any of those noises. I paid a lot of money to not be comfortable in my own home! If you stood in my kitchen a week ago your tune would be different. At one point, I could swear the vibration could be felt in the floor! Please don't automatically assume that the complainant is the picky one.

Anyway, the noise became progressively louder the other day and when I came home from work it sounded like the issue was addressed. It went from a loud buzz to a nasty rattle. I'm guessing it was just some start-up bugs to work out and the HVAC contractor came by to address the issue. It's slightly quieter than their old air conditioner, which I'm ok with.

If we ever decide to build a fence together it will deaden the sound even more.

If I ever decide to buy a heatpump of my own, noise output will a priority, because on my house, it will close to our bedrooms.

Thanks for the replies folks!

 

[jb6l6gc]

WOW!!

jb6l6gc, you must be mistaking me for someone who is a difficult neighbour. I live in a small group of houses 3km outside of a "town" on 3/4 of an acre. A town not much bigger than Cayuga. Most of my neighbours are on rural lots. I hear tractors, gun-shots, traffic, cows, dirtbikes, snowmobiles etc all day long. My next door neighbour loves to shoot his guns on Sunday's, he's a pretty cool guy. I have no issue with any of those noises. I paid a lot of money to not be comfortable in my own home! If you stood in my kitchen a week ago your tune would be different. At one point, I could swear the vibration could be felt in the floor! Please don't automatically assume that the complainant is the picky one.

Anyway, the noise became progressively louder the other day and when I came home from work it sounded like the issue was addressed. It went from a loud buzz to a nasty rattle. I'm guessing it was just some start-up bugs to work out and the HVAC contractor came by to address the issue. It's slightly quieter than their old air conditioner, which I'm ok with.

If we ever decide to build a fence together it will deaden the sound even more.

If I ever decide to buy a heatpump of my own, noise output will a priority, because on my house, it will close to our bedrooms.

Thanks for the replies folks!

sorry, wasn't implying it was just you being picky, was just asking as allot of people in my opinion have become soft these days.

 

[pjf]

sorry, wasn't implying it was just you being picky, was just asking as allot of people in my opinion have become soft these days.

No worries. I share the same opinion.

It just struck a chord with me... I actually lost some money selling my last home because I was the 'nice neighbour'. I'm not one to stir the pot.

I would encourage people reading this thread to consider db ratings if purchasing a heat pump, for both your own family and your neighbours. After I posted this thread I did some searching, seems that heat pump noise was becoming an issue and people are pushing for new laws. I guess there are cheaper units out there that create quite the racket.

 

[peakbagger]

db ratings are unfortunately to most part of the "black art" of noise reduction. Unless the ratings are based on identical conditions they cant be compared readily. The distance from the noise source makes a major difference in the measured dB ratings as well as the frequency range. There are also issues with different db ratings recorded at different frequencies, the overall average may be low but a high value at one frequency can be quite annoying.

It does sound like the OP's neighbor probably had a fan rattling or even hitting the case. The odd thing is a GSHP should not have a fan outside.

 

[moey]

What kind of GSHP has equipment outside? Maybe someone can point me to one Id like to learn more.

You might try simply talking with your neighbor and taking a look at it while its running sounds like something is rubbing that should not be. It probably would still be under warranty.

 

[Highbeam]

It wasn't a GSHP if it had an outside unit with a fan running for heat. The trench was probably for new electric or something else.

 

[maple1]

It wasn't a GSHP if it had an outside unit with a fan running for heat. The trench was probably for new electric or something else.

This. GSHP units are inside. Sounds like an air-to-air with just a small trench to the house for running a line set. Trenches for GSHP are long, wide & deep. Like, 1000's of square feet of area.