Guys, tell me just how bad of an idea this is.....castine air plate

[southbalto]

I purchased and installed a Jotul Castine and a new chimney in late December. Results have been mixed. I had issues with smoke at start up and getting a good fire going. There were times when I was able to run it up to 650+ even breaking 700 once but typically, when I run full air I max out in the 500 range.

The house is new construction and is pretty tight. Cracking the window made all the difference for start up (no smoking problem anymore) and it also seemed to help with getting up to temperature quicker. I plan to install an OAK next week which should resolve that problem. Still, the stove seemed starved for air. After struggling with it a bit this morning I let the stove run and cool. This afternoon I decided to loosen the USA intake plate and I inserted a bolt into the crack. Doing so made the air intake considerably larger. As opposed to two pencil size holes the air intake is maybe 5" by (1/8 to 1/4".

The stove liked it. The splits caught much quicker and I got up to temp in half the time.

So, let me ask, just how bad of an idea is it to run it this way? I asked the dealer to get a hold of a EUR plate last week. He hasn't returned my call yet.

 

[southbalto]

Where is BeGReen to slap me across the face....?

 

[begreen]

Patience grasshopper. You are treating the symptoms and not the problem. If the OAK is what is needed, these issues will be a memory next week. In the meantime, leave the window cracked open a 1/4" and crank the stove up.

If that doesn't work, I may still have our F400 EUR plate somewhere.

 

[cycloxer]

You could just drill a couple of holes in your USA plate. It's not a big deal. In my setup the EUR plate does work much better. I feel the USA plate is too restrictive.

 

[begreen]

For our stove it was the opposite. Too much wood consumed too quickly with the EUR plate even with the air control all the way closed. With the USA plate we had a greater range of control on the lower (less air) end without losing the ability to hit high stovetop temps with the air control a bit more open.

 

[cycloxer]

I think the issue is that you have to match the appropriate amount of primary air to your draft. If you have a strong draft, the EUR plate is probably overkill. I have a very short 13.5" of chimney from the stove top. My stove drafts fine, but I think this is why it likes the extra air of the EUR plate. It sounds like the original poster has a similar marginal draft setup. If you can find a EUR plate, I would throw it in because it will be a better match for your setup. Otherwise I would get out the drill. Drill pilot holes and then open them up so that you minimize the risk of cracking the casting.

 

[begreen]

OP appears to have a tight house with a ~20ft flue. Based on what is reported it doesn't seem to be a marginal draft if cracking a window dramatically improves performance. But it does indicate the stove needs some more air. My concern is that the EUR kit may deplete even more air from the living space as the stove competes with people, exhaust fans, furnaces, etc. for the air supply. That is usually not a good thing. Is it appropriate to suggest the EUR plate as a universal solution because it has solved a marginal flue issue?

 

[cycloxer]

My concern is that the EUR kit may deplete even more air from the living space as the stove competes with people for the air supply. That is usually not a good thing.

If the air gets depleted what is going to be back-filled into the house? The house may be tight, but it is not a vault.

He already tried a demo w/ a simulated EUR plate and the stove performed superior. I think Jotul had to conform to US EPA regulations with the USA plate. In my experience (and several others on this board), the EUR plate allows the stove to burn hotter, smoke less, and hit higher temperatures faster. That probably explains why every single market in which Jotul sells their stove, bar the US, uses the EUR plate. Jotul is a Norwegian company. They sell stoves in 15+ countries.

 

[begreen]

I guess I must be confused. I was happy to get an EPA Jotul. If the stove burns cleaner by putting greater emphasis on secondary burn, that seems like a good plan. Our stove could hit 700 easily. With a decent flue, rapid warmup was never an issue. Why not put a couple more feet on the stack and burn cleaner?

 

[cycloxer]

Agreed - The stove should be setup in such a way that it affords the most complete combustion.

With the EUR inspection cover you have the ability to provide 2-3X the air to the firebox if necessary. This is beneficial at start-up to get the fire going as quick as possible. A further benefit is that as the load burns down, you can provide more primary air to the firebox to keep the burn temps in the efficient 400-600 range for a longer period of time. A final benefit is that it allows you to burn down your coals more easily. I run my stove this way every night, burning down my coals in a big pile centered about the primary air slot of the EUR plate. The entering air acts like a blast furnace. I'll post a picture next time I do this.

It is important to note that when the air lever is adjusted fully to the left, the primary air is fully closed off with either the USA or EUR cover. You can actually provide the same air setting with the EUR cover, however, it also affords you more range of adjustment as it can provide 2-3X as much air at its maximum setting.

There is nothing magical about the EUR inspection cover, but it does have benefits that several Castine burners on this board have confirmed.

As for my chimney, I have plenty of draft so I have no idea what I would gain from an extra 2 feet of pipe bolted to my chimney other than an eyesore and a lighter wallet.

 

[southbalto]

OAK installed on Tuesday. Some improvement but the stove top temps are still not where they should be. I decided to pick up some biobricks today at the hardware store. They took off much better than the wood I had been burning (1.5-2 year old cherry and red oak). I'm thinking that my wood might not be as dry as I originally thought.

Another issue I'm dealing with is excessive draft. I loaded 5 biobricks into the stove at 6. Full air with the key damper closed. By 6:20 the stove is going off. Full of yellow flames with the secondaries firing. It's 7:30 now and here is a quick look at the firebox with the primary air all the way down.

Even when the stove was firing full blast the top never broke 450. It has since crept up to 500. I' still baffled as to how folks get their stove top to 600+ top in under 20 minutes.

 

[cycloxer]

That's not enough flame. This is what it should look like to hit 600°F plus temps:

 

[southbalto]

That's not enough flame. This is what it should look like to hit 600°F plus temps:

Oh I know. The vid clip I posted was about an hour and a half after start up. 15-20 min after start up the box was going off. Full of yellow flames with almost all secondaries shooting yellow flames....I'll post a pic after I finish burning this load down.

 

[southbalto]

 

[southbalto]

Started at 920 now 20 min in. 5 bricks over hot coals. 575 stove top.


Key damper fully closed the whole way up. With primary air fully closed secondaries are roaring and i'm up to 620.

 

[southbalto]

I've always thought the stove was starved for air, a blockage in the intake possibly. Based on my experience tonight it seems tweaking the key damper and ensuring I have dry wood might be the answer.

 

[cycloxer]

Yes. I think you have too much draft and you were literally sucking the heat right up your flue. It sounds like you are learning how to set the damper and primary air to get the stove burning just right. 620°F is a great temp to hit as the efficent range of the stove is 400-600. I run it up to 650 just to clean the glass and the flue and then I let it back off to the range. I was up on the roof last weekend and popped the cap and checked my flue and all was well with no cleaning due until the end of the season.

I had the blast furnace going again tonight. You can see I am at max air burning down my coals at 400°F. This is where the EUR plate really shines.

 

[begreen]

OAK installed on Tuesday. Some improvement but the stove top temps are still not where they should be. I decided to pick up some biobricks today at the hardware store. They took off much better than the wood I had been burning (1.5-2 year old cherry and red oak). I'm thinking that my wood might not be as dry as I originally thought.

Another issue I'm dealing with is excessive draft. I loaded 5 biobricks into the stove at 6. Full air with the key damper closed. By 6:20 the stove is going off. Full of yellow flames with the secondaries firing. It's 7:30 now and here is a quick look at the firebox with the primary air all the way down.

Even when the stove was firing full blast the top never broke 450. It has since crept up to 500. I' still baffled as to how folks get their stove top to 600+ top in under 20 minutes.

Maybe because the key damper was closed? Starting off, the key damper should be open. Don't close it until the stove is hot and the bricks are fully involved. And experiment, you may not need to close it all the way. Sometimes halfway is sufficient.