Had oil delivered yesterday
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ironpony
Minister of Fire
would it not be cheaper to convert to an electric hot water tank???
they are very energy efficient now
they are very energy efficient now
Hows the recovery time on electric units?
I have LP now, but been thinking about electric when it craps out.
I seem to remember the recovery being forever at my folks house, but that was an old unit.
I have LP now, but been thinking about electric when it craps out.
I seem to remember the recovery being forever at my folks house, but that was an old unit.
ironpony said:
We have talked about it. The only place to put one would be in the garage, hubby is concerned about how much it would run to keep water hot? Since its out in the cold. Also have talked about replacing the nozzle on our boiler to one that uses less oil? Hopefully we will find something cheaper. Maybe hubby who reads on here but never posts will weigh in on this.
ironpony
Minister of Fire
smoke show said:
I have an 80 gallon capacity and never have had cold water.
3 people in house
no nat.gas here and not going to propane
Here are some other concerns of ours.
- well the cost right now to buy a hot water heater. This year we bought the pellet stove. Maybe next year we can swing the hot water heater.
- the lack of using the boiler. We've been told by repairmen that by not using the boiler we can do damage to it. Which even if we don't need it, we need it to still work for resale value of the home.
Anyone have any info on that? If we can fire it up once a week/month to keep it running then we would. But I don't want to kill it by not using it.
- well the cost right now to buy a hot water heater. This year we bought the pellet stove. Maybe next year we can swing the hot water heater.
- the lack of using the boiler. We've been told by repairmen that by not using the boiler we can do damage to it. Which even if we don't need it, we need it to still work for resale value of the home.
Anyone have any info on that? If we can fire it up once a week/month to keep it running then we would. But I don't want to kill it by not using it.
ironpony
Minister of Fire
ironpony
Minister of Fire
briggsy13 said:
I have heard of those concerns, not sure if true
and keeping it in the garage might negate any possible savings
BradH70
Feeling the Heat
ironpony said:
What is your monthly electric bill and kWh rate were you live? This would give us oil burners some idea of possible savings. There are 3 people in my house as well and we currently use a 40 gallon Amtrol Bioler mate for DHW. We go through about 250-275 gallons of oil/year for DHW. House is heated solely with the pellet stove.
TLHinCanada
Feeling the Heat
I bought a 40 gal. for 267.00, it will require a 220 volt 30 amp circuit. I have mine on a timer it runs 8 hours a day. I did put a insulating blanket on it (cost 26.00). Provides showers, dishwasher, and laundry for two, if you need more turn it on and it usually recovers in 30-45 minutes. These are Canadian prices so you can probably reduce them by 20%.
Utilitrack
Feeling the Heat
ironpony said:
Do you need a 200 amp electrical service in order to have an electric water heater?
TLHinCanada
Feeling the Heat
I don't think so, just a free 30 amps. You would have to take a look at your breaker panel and see if you could add a breaker. Do some addition and see what your drawing now. I'm sure one of the code police is out there to advice on U.S. code.
hoverfly
Minister of Fire
Your best bet are the instant recovery hot water heaters. Either gas @ 90+ efficient or electric. Tanks cost money to store the water, unless you go with a solar add on. But crunching the numbers, oil is still cheaper than most fuels. But that's depending on what is available in your area. If you have nat gas available, then it's the cheapest right now.
Utilitrack
Feeling the Heat
Our electric here is roughly $.13/kwh. I can't imagine that a hot water heater would cost more but I'm not really sure. If we use 200 gallons per year of oil to heat water that is at least $750 depending of course on the price of oil. Our electric bill would have to go up over $60 per month for us to not save.
Thoughts on that? Do you think it would cost that much?
There are 5 of us here. 3 little ones who usually all bathe together & 2 adults (who maybe should bathe together
)
Thoughts on that? Do you think it would cost that much?
There are 5 of us here. 3 little ones who usually all bathe together & 2 adults (who maybe should bathe together
)
ironpony
Minister of Fire
kWh for 1/2012 is .073395 total cost
my house is all electric , heat with pellets
guest/inlaw house where my 85 year old dad lives, all electric
both have high efficiency heat pumps, central A/C and other normal appliances
both on same meter
Dec. bill was 231.00
so all electric = only bill I get every month
my house is all electric , heat with pellets
guest/inlaw house where my 85 year old dad lives, all electric
both have high efficiency heat pumps, central A/C and other normal appliances
both on same meter
Dec. bill was 231.00
so all electric = only bill I get every month
BradH70
Feeling the Heat
I have an Amtrol Boiler Mate that stores my hot water and acts as a zone off of the oil furnace. In the past 11 months I have used ~250 gallons of oil to keep the DHW hot. This work out to be $897.50/year at today’s oil price of $3.59. Electricity from PSNH is going for ~$0.155kWh.
1 gallon of oil = 115,000 BTU’s x 250 gallons = 28,750,000 BTU’s
1 kWh of electricity = 3,413 BTU’s
So…. 28,750,000/3,413 = 8,423.67kWh * $0.155 = $1,305.67
Looks like it is cheaper to keep my Boiler Mate. However, I’m hoping that someone will find some holes in my projections such that I could justify switching to an alternate fuel source for DHW.
1 gallon of oil = 115,000 BTU’s x 250 gallons = 28,750,000 BTU’s
1 kWh of electricity = 3,413 BTU’s
So…. 28,750,000/3,413 = 8,423.67kWh * $0.155 = $1,305.67
Looks like it is cheaper to keep my Boiler Mate. However, I’m hoping that someone will find some holes in my projections such that I could justify switching to an alternate fuel source for DHW.
GrahamInVa
Minister of Fire
I have a propane instant hot water deal. I'm not sure how the cost compare but it's cost me around $50/month ($3.60/gal) in propane for my hot water.
My guess is electric or nat gas is the way to go.
My guess is electric or nat gas is the way to go.
ironpony
Minister of Fire
BradH70 said:
I do not think that is a correct comparison but I could be wrong
oil is going to have alot more waste heat???
I am sure someone with more knowledge will chime in
ironpony said:
I do know that the boiler is going to kick on during the day to heat hot water regardless of actually using it or not. We have started shutting it off until we are in need of it. Turn it on like 5 mins before bath time and its ready to go by the time I get the kiddos in there. We are hoping this is saving us from wasted oil.
kofkorn
Feeling the Heat
BradH70 said:
There are a few things wrong with this, mostly not related to the calculation, but related to design and efficiency. You didn't consider your efficiency of the oil burner which is likely somewhere around 80-85%. That means that 15-20% of your heat is going directly up the chimney. Additionally there is a significant loss when you go from the furnace to the Boiler mate, as the heat can only transfer so quickly. Add onto that, the heat loss of the furnace to your room due to insulation, plus the heat loss of the boiler mate to the room. Also add in the cost of electricity to run the circulator to keep the Boiler mate heated.
Now on the other side, electric resistance heaters are 100% efficient. Subtract from that the energy lost to the room due to insulation.
Now compare the two. There likely won't be a huge difference between the two. I think you will see the biggest difference between the insulation heat loss between the furnace and the electric heater. I've found very few situations where an electric hot water heater is better in the winter, when the oil is also being used at the same time for heat. However, if you are keeping the furnace running for DHW only, you will almost always find that the electric is cheaper.
BradH70
Feeling the Heat
I'm going to agree with kofkorn. I used perfect world values were there would be no loss in the system, but I think it would be difficult to make a 100 accurate comparison between the oil burner/Boilermate combo and the electric water tank. The easiest way is to get some electric bill numbers from people that are heating there DHW with an electric tank.
The other issue is that my system is only 8 years old and seems to work quite well. An electric tank is in the range of $600 to $1000 and I'm not sure that I would want to install it myself. I can do a lot around the house but I have never tested out my plumbing skills.
The other issue is that my system is only 8 years old and seems to work quite well. An electric tank is in the range of $600 to $1000 and I'm not sure that I would want to install it myself. I can do a lot around the house but I have never tested out my plumbing skills.
It's been several years since I ran the comparison but my recollection is once oil prices past $2.85/gal it was cheaper to use my electric heater unless the boiler was being run to heat the house. I also have heat pumps so the oil boiler is used primarily late November till mid march. I have it plumbed so I can run the domestic hot from the boiler into the electric tank, where it can sit for storage, or I can bypass the tank. When oil was cheap I used the boiler all year long, storing the heated water. The electric water is heated to about 125; the water heated by the boiler is much hotter so even with heat loss I had usable water and the electric element didn't work very hard.
There are some very well insulated water heaters out there that claim very low numbers for energy costs. I think the published range on my is $345 to $414. I'm paying $3.85/gal for oil and $3.99 for propane so there is no way I would hesitate putting in an electric heater. However, I am installing a harman pb105 in a remote building and running 85 feet to the house to try out peller central heat. If it works out like I expect I will consider relocating it to my boiler room and moving my oil boiler to my outbuilding. Then I would try pellet heat for water, at least during the winter.
The recovery times on the new electric water heaters are pretty fast. Never had a problem.
There are some very well insulated water heaters out there that claim very low numbers for energy costs. I think the published range on my is $345 to $414. I'm paying $3.85/gal for oil and $3.99 for propane so there is no way I would hesitate putting in an electric heater. However, I am installing a harman pb105 in a remote building and running 85 feet to the house to try out peller central heat. If it works out like I expect I will consider relocating it to my boiler room and moving my oil boiler to my outbuilding. Then I would try pellet heat for water, at least during the winter.
The recovery times on the new electric water heaters are pretty fast. Never had a problem.
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