Hampton CI2601 (Regency HI400) vs Quadra-Fire Voyageur Grand

[WoodBurner400]

First, I wanted to say thanks, I've spent the last week reading all the stickys, and reading thru answers on forums.

We've settled on on a wood insert, to be installed in a preexisting masonry box with tile chimney that is centrally located in a two story 3500 sq ft house with the staircase in the same room. The house is all electric (no gas, no oil, just a furnace in hair-dryer mode in the winter once the heap pumps can't keep up) in central Ohio climate.

We have an expectation of getting supplement heat, since our house square footage is larger than the metrics of fireplaces. We just want to reduce our $900+ per month electric bills. (Baseline electric during months of no heat/no cool is around $150.)

We are considering the Hampton CI2601 (Regency HI400) vs Quadra-Fire Voyageur Grand.

On paper, it seems the CI2601 seems better - more BTUs, better efficiency, longer burn time, larger firebox, all at about the same price. I've also seen some folks here mention the Voyageur needs the door left open when starting, not something I like.

But then I saw this (at the time of this post) 34-page response on the catalytic converter-based wood-burning inserts here:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-ci2600-fireplace-insert-risky-costly.132252/

It seems folks are OK with the catalytic converters stove like this one, but it also garnered a LOT of replys - in fact, it is the predominant thread I found on that insert. It seems like a lot of folks are having issues getting 14 hour burn times, but overall it seems folks aren't scared of catalytic converters, and like the designs of the HI400/CI2601 and seem happy with the unit as a whole.

Any direct comparisons between these two stoves I would welcome.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

The thread has become the default for this popular insert. There were some initial issues with the first units sold but fortunately Regency came up with a fix pretty quickly. Since then the thread is mostly about people enjoying the insert and learning to run it better. It's still too early to have a long term picture on this insert but so far folks seem happy with it.

The Grand Voyageur is a more conventional insert. Quadrafire has a long history of building good, clean burning stoves.

 

[WoodBurner400]

Thanks for the reply begreen!

It seems like a large part of the thread folks are really, really unhappy. I am not sure I agree with your statement that it is mostly about people enjoying the insert and learning to run it - 2 of the major posters had their stoves removed and installed some other brand. It seems like folks who are happy, wolves1 and marty22877, can't seem to get to that 14 hour mark reliably unless it is like 50 F outside, and even folks who started happy are looking to replace units like out-of-the-woods. Complaints of short burn times, issues with the bypass, issues with the door seals, etc, go on from the start and continues all the way thru to page 28, where folks generate a new login account just so they can share that they are having issues with short burn times too, so people like cinders and Jonney006 won't feel alone. In that way, I would summarize the thread differently - I know you contributed to that thread begreen, and may have a different view than me. Even wolves1 is looking for a replacement by page 31 (cracks on inside bead welds), and he is probably the one with the best experience in the whole thread! I also noticed post #782, where other brands are being recommended!

Geeze, at that point in the thread, it seems like the CI2601 would be a mistake!

That being said, it seems somewhere around page 30 (spring 2015) comments start showing that Regency is starting to ship units with restrictor plates installed, and then a few months later, it seems Regency redesigned the bypass plate heavier, I assume with hopes of fixing the bypass issues. (For example, see images in post by Simon Templar in May 2015).

Post 808 around October of 2015 is the real turnaround as I see it - a user with the old version and good use, then the new version right after and great experience after. At least one other user is in the same spot, and seems much happier with the new version of this stove.

-So, are users now happy with the new version of the CI2601 (HI400) with restrictor plate and reinforced bypass mechanism?
-Are 14 hour burn times (hot coals near the end) being achieved my most users with the newer version of this stove?

 

[TechFox]

I have a CI2601 unit shipped and installed three weeks ago, and I'm a little confused with the results. I would think it would/should be easier to get at least 8-10 hour burn times at this point in the unit's history and construction, i.e. well after the corrections in construction supposedly made already. I can't say I've reached long burn times myself, which seems to indicate to me there are possibly a couple tuning issues that aren't obvious to me and most folks, or a design or component issue that hasn't yet been resolved.

It doesn't appear mine came with the restrictor plate, but I haven't disassembled it yet to be sure. It think mine had the knock outs removed from the factory, and the bypass plate appears solid and works as designed. I took pics of the draft output restrictor after my burn times were disappointing to try and figure out what's wrong and the hole appears to be unrestricted, so I'll have to identify that issue for sure. (I mentioned the issues to the retailer where I purchased it before I purchased it, but never really got a description of the differences between the 2600 and the 2601 from anyone except the forums here. That says something, just not sure what yet.)

I'm happy with the look, and feel like others have found long burn time success, so I should be able to as well, just not sure how yet, and I think that is the major point here. I feel it should be easier, but some folks haven't been able to or couldn't get there.

I'm no expert (hence newby) and have not had many burns in this/my unit yet, nor "experimented" enough to see how my particular install works, nor how well with the various techniques, but I can say there are many variables, and boiling them all down to their relevance and essence appears to be a major factor here. Technically, I think there should not be such issues if the manufacturer's experience and products are solidly designed and operation is consistent, but the truth is mileage varies with the details and particulars, and those vary quite a bit.

Hence, I like the product and believe I can get satisfactory results based on the success and experiences of others, and I won't be shy about sharing the details and particulars regardless of success or failure. It will be up to the manufacturer and retailer to make it right where necessary. And based on the forums here, there is evidence they will, boosting my confidence I will ultimately get success in one form or another.

That's pretty much where I sit at this point. Not yet successful, but willing to plug away until a definitive "it's possible" or "it's impossible" opinion is rendered.

 

[Heftiger]

I have no experience with these inserts; but I would say that if you're having to talk yourself into it, it's probably not the right decision. What caused you to narrow down your decision to just these 2 options?

 

[edge-of-the-woods]

We have the CI2600/HI400 installed.

Since the restrictor plate went in and I started burning drier wood, we have been getting much better burn times.

That said, I hate the way the firebox narrows at the back of the unit. It's a royal pain in the ass to load to max capacity (andirons out, loaded to the glass) the way the techs recommend, and the only way it gets those overnight burns for us. It's a pain to load all the way up, and I've knocked the stupid plate at the top of the firebox off at least a dozen times, while trying to re-load.

If I could do it over again, I'd get something with a bigger firebox, and not get the flush-mount.

 

[WoodBurner400]

All: Thanks for the replies!

TechFox: You summarized the way I feel now. (See below)

Heftiger: Mostly is the the look of each we liked - we wanted a flush mount and liked the look of these two models. Also, the two major vendors in our area carried these models, and there wasn't much else we saw in those showrooms (and catalogs) we liked - that said, we settled on the Regency HI400.

e-o-t-w: I am with you on the narrowing, it is a major pain loading this bad boy, and since I had cut to wood to length before deciding on a model, so this is the wood I have. That box shape is not easy. Still, I cannot get around the flush mount, so to have anything else, I think we would not like.
It was installed around the 20th of December, and we have been burning since then.

Background Info:
-Outdoor temperatures have ranged form 40 to 5 degrees F.
-Insulated pipe installed, two story house (35 foot of liner) in a pre-exsiting masonry fireplace.
-Wood is 2 year seasoned black walnut, ~15 to 18% water content if I check it right after splitting - it has a nice clunk when you hit it, like when you drop a 2x4 on concrete, you can tell it is nice and dry.
-I pack that firebox all the way - I'm plaing tetris getting the wood in there on a regular basis.
-There is usually a nice coal bed when I wake in the AM, and after 8 hours, the box is usually between 200 and 300 F. I am getting warm (not hot) air out of the front after about 8 hours. If I don't load it right away in the morning, the fan is always off by 10 hours, and I have to re-start the fire.
-The Condar thermostat, while functional, is really irritating. I replaced it the first moment I could.
-While running, the heat makes it thru most of the house, and the room with fireplace is usually 68-72 F, and the heat goes right up the staircase and the other rooms with ease, no room is too hot or cold unless a door gets shut.
-House is divided into two areas, each with a furnace. There is a staircase in the room with the insert (furnace 1) and a doorway to the smaller section of the house (furnace 2).

Running Procedure:
-Rake down the coal bed and make a ravine from front to back for air,
-Load wood in (I consider this my start time) - typically it takes about 30 minutes for the wood to get going and bring the box temperature above 500 F.
-I close the bypass
-I leave it for another 10 or 20 minutes, by then temps are about 900 F, I damper it down to the lowest air flow
-4 to 8 hours from the last load, it is really ready for a reload.

Replacing the Condar Thermostat:
I hate that the Condar thermostat only had a 50 degree resolution, wouldn't tell me temps below 300, and you had to hit that button every time. Also, the rep that installed it said we had to run it out of the left side because the wire to the Condar probe would degrade laying on top of the hot firebox. This might be untrue, but he is the "professional", so I relented. I replaced it with the following getup for around $30-ish:

A Display:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V2A9JN6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
A stainless probe with a stainless braid on the wire:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016F4G6MU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00
And a 12 V Power Supply:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VM28NOK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00

It was a little disappointing at first - the display and thermocouple came from China (like, shipped form there...), so there was a long shipping delay, and the display showed up blue (hard for eyes to focus across the room) but no more getting up to push a button to see if the bypass should be pushed back in, and since you get all 4 digits of precision, you can see the trends in temperature digit by digit - IE immediate feedback about if things are getting cooler or warmer. Now that it is all installed, I didn't care that it took weeks and weeks to get here, and we are "warming up" on the blue color. Plus, it plugs in where the fan does, so no more batteries and it is always on! Also, the diagram for the power had the polarity reversed, and you have to take the display apart at first and enter a code to get it to work - keep the directions!

Side Notes:
-The guy who installed it used to be a Regency rep, and he said I should only expect 6 hour burn times when he installed it. WHAT!?!?! If only I talked to him BEFORE we bought the unit
-Restrictor plate did not come stock with the unit
-Rep who installed said that I did not need to put a block plate in right above the firebox

Conclusions:
-When it is hot, the hot air out is nice, and it is heating the sq foot we expected (though with more loading) - heating at least 2500 sq feet with the furnace barely running or not at all.
-Love the looks, love the operation, good heat after loads, warmish heat for around 8 hours.
-Heat all goes up the staircase and spreads thru hose better than I expected, but doesn't make it to adjacent area of the house (about 1,000 sq feet) and that area's furnace still runs a lot.
-I really despise the Condar thermocouple and display - I recommend you replace yours. If only I could get my money back for that one. Regency should call me and I'll make them a thermostat that is worth something. I'll also re-write their ads to say 8 hour burn time - I'll do that for free for them.

Last, a call for help:

We simply cannot get anywhere close to 14 hour burn times - with full loads of 15% water black walnut with full restriction on air input once things are hot, we only get 4 to 8 hours until the air coming out is only warm (and this is a stretch saying this) maybe 9 or 10 hours MAX before the fan turns off. We did the dollar bill check on the door - seals good, ashes out, plenty of room for more. Start time starts at the load (not later after everything is hot). When I stop down the air input, the flames slow down, so I can see a difference in airflow.

Any thoughts any experienced users have (EOTW, wolves1, etc) for me, I would welcome.

Pics attached of setup with new temp. display (still unmounted).

Thanks