Harman Accentra 52i - thermal expansion & contraction sounds

[CanM]

I own a Harman Accentra 52i pellet insert. I love the heat output of the stove but thermal expansion & contraction sounds from the stove make me worry. I can describe these sounds as metals cracking... or as if you drop a screw driver onto a sheet metal... some kind of a metal-metal impact. Being annoying and uncomortable is one thing but it makes me worry about the life of the stove too, if it is constantly being stressed that much.

I used a 20+ year old Earth stove for a year last year before investing into a brand new Harman 52i. We got the insert installed in early November. In a week I realized the sounds one would expect to hear during thermal expansion and contraction (mostly contraction) were very frequent and loud. It was almost like there is a thermal-structural sweet spot of the stove which corresponds to my set room temp and every time temperature swings the stove made these sounds. I went back to the dealer and told him about the stove. He kept saying 'that's normal' but I insisted that 'it is too often & loud to be normal'. So he ended up calling Harman. After a quick serial number check Harman said 'there are some improperly welded stoves' and agreed to replace my stove. Dealer was also surprised he kept saying he has never heard anything like this before...

After using the first stove less than a month they replaced it. Now the second one is running in my living room. I still hear the thermal expansion & contraction sounds, definitely not as annoying as the previous one but I don't know what is normal and what is not. During the day stove runs at room temp mode ~72F and manual, the temperature is more steady, there is more noise around so the cracking is not as appearant and annoying. When I dial it down to ~65F during the night it starts to make these cracking sounds when initially cooling down. But it doesn't end there; temperature swings are greater during the night (not quite sure why) which also results more than usual thermal contraction sounds.

I wonder what other people's experiences are with 2014 Harman Accentra 52i. Do you hear these kind of sounds? How frequently? Could it be another 'improperly welded stove' or an installation issue?

 

[boo boo]

I own a Harman Accentra 52i pellet insert. I love the heat output of the stove but thermal expansion & contraction sounds from the stove make me worry. I can describe these sounds as metals cracking... or as if you drop a screw driver onto a sheet metal... some kind of a metal-metal impact. Being annoying and uncomortable is one thing but it makes me worry about the life of the stove too, if it is constantly being stressed that much.

I used a 20+ year old Earth stove for a year last year before investing into a brand new Harman 52i. We got the insert installed in early November. In a week I realized the sounds one would expect to hear during thermal expansion and contraction (mostly contraction) were very frequent and loud. It was almost like there is a thermal-structural sweet spot of the stove which corresponds to my set room temp and every time temperature swings the stove made these sounds. I went back to the dealer and told him about the stove. He kept saying 'that's normal' but I insisted that 'it is too often & loud to be normal'. So he ended up calling Harman. After a quick serial number check Harman said 'there are some improperly welded stoves' and agreed to replace my stove. Dealer was also surprised he kept saying he has never heard anything like this before...

After using the first stove less than a month they replaced it. Now the second one is running in my living room. I still hear the thermal expansion & contraction sounds, definitely not as annoying as the previous one but I don't know what is normal and what is not. During the day stove runs at room temp mode ~72F and manual, the temperature is more steady, there is more noise around so the cracking is not as appearant and annoying. When I dial it down to ~65F during the night it starts to make these cracking sounds when initially cooling down. But it doesn't end there; temperature swings are greater during the night (not quite sure why) which also results more than usual thermal contraction sounds.

I wonder what other people's experiences are with 2014 Harman Accentra 52i. Do you hear these kind of sounds? How frequently? Could it be another 'improperly welded stove' or an installation issue?

Hello and welcome
Here is another thread you can read through sounds like the same concern
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-p52i-noises-normal-or-not.134835/#post-1809647

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Our 20 plus year Whitfield makes all sorts of clinking and popping sounds as it heats up and cools off.

The Harman is a fabricated (Welded) steel structure, and is going to make noises as heats up.

The fire pot being located in the front causes expansion to be more localized and not over the entire structure like a wood stove would be.

The heat exchanger/s will move a bit as well.

As long as you are not smelling smoke from a leak internally you are good to go.

You might run your concerns by the Harman Rep, but my guess is that he is going to tell you that it is a normal thing.

Snowy

 

[StanleyinMD]

I own a Harman Accentra 52i pellet insert. I love the heat output of the stove but thermal expansion & contraction sounds from the stove make me worry. I can describe these sounds as metals cracking... or as if you drop a screw driver onto a sheet metal... some kind of a metal-metal impact. Being annoying and uncomortable is one thing but it makes me worry about the life of the stove too, if it is constantly being stressed that much.

I used a 20+ year old Earth stove for a year last year before investing into a brand new Harman 52i. We got the insert installed in early November. In a week I realized the sounds one would expect to hear during thermal expansion and contraction (mostly contraction) were very frequent and loud. It was almost like there is a thermal-structural sweet spot of the stove which corresponds to my set room temp and every time temperature swings the stove made these sounds. I went back to the dealer and told him about the stove. He kept saying 'that's normal' but I insisted that 'it is too often & loud to be normal'. So he ended up calling Harman. After a quick serial number check Harman said 'there are some improperly welded stoves' and agreed to replace my stove. Dealer was also surprised he kept saying he has never heard anything like this before...

After using the first stove less than a month they replaced it. Now the second one is running in my living room. I still hear the thermal expansion & contraction sounds, definitely not as annoying as the previous one but I don't know what is normal and what is not. During the day stove runs at room temp mode ~72F and manual, the temperature is more steady, there is more noise around so the cracking is not as appearant and annoying. When I dial it down to ~65F during the night it starts to make these cracking sounds when initially cooling down. But it doesn't end there; temperature swings are greater during the night (not quite sure why) which also results more than usual thermal contraction sounds.

I wonder what other people's experiences are with 2014 Harman Accentra 52i. Do you hear these kind of sounds? How frequently? Could it be another 'improperly welded stove' or an installation issue?

Hi CanM, I too have the Accentra 52i pellet insert and have been experiencing the popping sounds that you describe since mine was installed in October of 2014. I've had the local Harman dealer (Courtland Hearth in Maryland) come out twice to hear the sounds. The first visit was when the stove was completely cold and the technician (Tim, who was by the way was excellent) started the stove and waited for it to run until very hot. He was here about 2 hours and he also recorded the sounds on his i-phone. The second visit was with the stove running for several hours and he shut it down and also recorded the sounds, his visit again about 2 hours. The second visit the expansion noises were not quite as noticeable (like taking your car to the shop making all kinds of noises but stops the first time the mechanic drives it). I called Harman directly on 3-11-2015 and spoke to Seth who stated the stove should not be making the sounds. He advised for me to remove the side panels and look for metal "popping" while the stove is running. I gave him my name and t/p number and asked that he call me should he speak to another tech at Harman if they came up with some kind of solution. We'll see. So bottom line is I will take the side panels off and whatever else I can to see if I can locate any metal moving. I wonder if the thin metal where the pellets are dumped might be expanding? Really annoying considering the expense of this stove. Not sure this helps you but wanted to share my experience. Anybody with any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. I might call Seth back with the serial number and see if my insert had bad welds. Stanley

 

[HP52NOVA]

I have read about this in another thread here, Harman replaced the entire stove because of welding issues. What happened to "build to a standard, not a price"? Some sounds are normal, mine will make some clicking sounds here and there and the dog may jump (she jumps to many other noises!), but nothing really loud and not very often, so I consider that normal. if the sounds are loud and frequent then its not normal. Call Harman to replace it or fix during your first year ownership. As a minimum they need to address the concern and vet its acceptable or not.

 

[StanleyinMD]

Update. On Monday 3-16-15 a technician from Courtland came out to record the popping sounds with his i-phone and would send it to Harman. On 3-23-15 I checked with the tech to see if there was anything from Harman, he said he hadn't heard anything. On 4-2-15 I spoke to a manager at Courtland to see if Harman had responded, nothing from Harman. On 4-14-2015 I stopped into Courtland to speak to the manager in person. While there she called the technician to see if he heard from Harman, he did not. She called Harman and spoke to a Brian who said a video did come in a while ago but there was not a message with it so he didn't know who it came from. He did see the video however and said "yes" they would replace my 52i with a brand new one and cover all labor, etc. for Courtland. So this is a start for me, a good one at that but I am worried that the new one might have noise issues. I asked the manager about my concerns and she said Harman was replacing x amount of inserts from serial #?? through ??. Why these in particular she did not know, duh! I plan on calling Harman very soon and ask to speak to Brian to see if there were any changes in the manufacturing process to alleviate my fears. Updates will follow as they come in. Thanks for listening. Stanley

 

[Peterfield]

If you have those serial #'s, that would be great info.

 

[StanleyinMD]

Peterfield, I do not know what serial numbers are being replaced. I got the impression from talking with numerous technicians, etc. that it's done case by case. I did purchase my 52i in October of 2014.

 

[Husky]

I purchased my 52i in August of 2014. I have gone a whole season with very little popping and cracking noises. I do get a little popping as the stove is getting up to heat and when it is cooling down, but nothing that would cause any concern. My noises are more like ticking noises than popping.

 

[StanleyinMD]

I wish that is all I got. My stove (at times) sounded like someone threw rocks at it. It would be real quiet in the living room then BAM. Scared the hell out of you. If I got the sounds that you describe I would not have contacted my dealer and just lived with it.

I tried to contact Harman this morning but they changed their voice prompts so that you need to go through your dealer should you have any issues.

 

[digitys]

I've got an older 52i, mine does not make these sounds! Must have been a batch of them.

It might make some slight noises as it heats up form start but nothing out of the ordinary that any other unit makes as it heats up (oven, etc)

 

[StanleyinMD]

digitys, like your avatar. Gotta love those labs. Anyway I personally know 3 people who have the 52i who don't have the noise, but they are older stoves. Does anyone know if the fans need to be oiled? I just spoke to one of the three mentioned and he says he has to oil the bearings in the fans with a special oil made for the fans. I asked the technician who came out to videotape the noise if the fans need to be oiled and he said no they are sealed bearings. Just want to make sure. When the new insert arrives I will definitely ask about oiling the fans. Maybe the newer stoves don't need oiling. Thanks everyone. Stanley

 

[digitys]

Labs are the best! That is a great call, I need to oil both my XXV and Accentra fans. Can't wait for summer to be able to tear them down completely and get this stuff done!

And the warm weather of course!

 

[StanleyinMD]

Other then the shedding hair they really are great. We had a black and yellow (really white) labs years ago, both gone. Still miss them dearly, so gentle. Take care and thanks. Stanley

 

[StanleyinMD]

Update, on Tuesday April 28, 2015 Courtland Hearth arrived with a brand new Accentra 52i. I asked what they were going to do with the old 52i and they were told by Harman to "junk" it. I really can't see them doing that as there are many useful parts on the old stove, glass, blowers, ignitors, etc. I'm sure it will find a way into one of the employees' homes. NOTE: The technicians said Harman found that slag from the welds caused the expansion/contraction sounds. He did not know what group of serial numbers were causing the problem. Since we are into May now (warmer weather) I need to get on the stick and start the stove; 1) to burn off the oily coating on the steel and 2) to make sure it doesn't make any sounds. I have a brand new warranty but need to do this to make sure this thing is quiet. Hope this helps folks, take care, Stanley

 

[StanleyinMD]

Update, this past month I had the opportunity to light the pellet stove as there was a cool front that was passing through my area and it was quite breezy. I lit the stove, ran it for a good hour or so to burn off the oily coating, wow did that stink. Anyway I'm happy to report that other then the normal dropping of the pellets the stove was very quiet, no expansion/contraction sounds. So that made me very happy. The real test will be this fall when I run the stove 24/7. Thanks for listening, hope this helps others. Stanley

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Update, this past month I had the opportunity to light the pellet stove as there was a cool front that was passing through my area and it was quite breezy. I lit the stove, ran it for a good hour or so to burn off the oily coating, wow did that stink. Anyway I'm happy to report that other then the normal dropping of the pellets the stove was very quiet, no expansion/contraction sounds. So that made me very happy. The real test will be this fall when I run the stove 24/7. Thanks for listening, hope this helps others. Stanley

StanleyinMD my new 52i is making the same sounds... Any update regarding the new stove?

 

[wildbill]

do you know the ser. # on the one they replaced ? I jut bought the same stove and have a similar sound going on, al be it not as bad as you did but now im starting to wonder

 

[Mrpelletburner]

do you know the ser. # on the one they replaced ? I jut bought the same stove and have a similar sound going on, al be it not as bad as you did but now im starting to wonder

Besides the sound, how much does the temperature have to drop in order for the stove to start firing again? Have mine set to 74 and the house goes down to 68 before the stove kicks in again.

 

[Bioburner]

Have mine set to 74 and the house goes down to 68 before the stove kicks in again

Where is your temp probe at? Sometimes if the probe is located on at something that is acting as a heat sink the swings can be more pronounced.

 

[Peterfield]

From past posts on this topic, you can account for the temperature difference by setting your stove at a different temp, move the sensor off the hearth and away from the stove or switch to manual mode so the stove doesn't completely shut off.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Anyone else with the 52i having the same thermal expansion & contraction sounds?

[

 

[StanleyinMD]

Anyone else with the 52i having the same thermal expansion & contraction sounds?

[

StanleyinMD my new 52i is making the same sounds... Any update regarding the new stove?

Sorry for the late reply, I don't visit this site very much. As of 11-22-2015 I've been running the insert now for just about two weeks +/-. Regarding the expansion/contraction sounds the stove still makes the noise but not as bad as the first stove. Am I 100% satisfied with Harman products? No I'm not. In all fairness to them they did replace the noisy insert with one that is not as bad. But I don't understand why a manufacturer would not just stop ALL production until they fixed this issue. Am I being too picky maybe, but these stoves are very expensive and I was told it's one of the best on the market. I'll live with this insert and put up with the occasional popping sounds but it's frustrating. I've talked to others who have the same stove and they have absolutely no expansion/contraction noise. Other friends have different stoves and they don't have the sound either. So, would I recommend Harman, no I would not, I would try a different company. This isn't brain surgery, fix the problem once and for all. Comments, criticisms are welcome. Thanks everyone, Stanley

 

[Peterfield]

Peterfield, I do not know what serial numbers are being replaced. I got the impression from talking with numerous technicians, etc. that it's done case by case. I did purchase my 52i in October of 2014.

I had a new 52i installed in Nov 2014. My fan noise initially had a high-pitched harmonic noise that you could hear from outside the house. I convinced the dealer to send out a tech and he swapped out both distribution motors and the noise was gone. I listened to your video and my 52 does not make that noise. Sometime, you can here the clinking of pellets falling into the auger tube cavity but that sound is not the sound your stove is making. I'd call the dealer and arrange to have a tech come by the next time they are in your area and listen for themselves. Odd that two stoves would have the same defect. Is there anything on the frame that the insert slides into that could cause the noise?

 

[Mrpelletburner]

UPDATE.... Dealer had been out twice, completely disassembled the stove, only to still have the issue. After the dealer explaining that it is tough to get Harman to replace the stove, I took to Harman's Facebook page. I was immediately contacted via Facebook, which ultimately led to my stove being replaced last week [emoji41]. The new stove is not perfect, however it is not as extreme as my posted video. The issue is the aluminum heatsinks attached thermal expansion and contraction. Also the fins of the heatsink could be thicker, this would reduce the pings and tings.