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  1. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Loc:
    South East, MA
    Wanted to throw a question out to any Harman Insert owners. I recently bought and had installed a P35i insert. Just had my first "light up" 2 days ago. I'm the type of person that likes to "look under the hood" at how things work, so, I read the owner's manual front to back before the installer came to my house. I noticed that the installer did not install a "sealing plate" at the damper per Harman's installation instructions (for existing fireplace). I asked the installer about this, and he said it wasn't necessary. I was going to let it go at that, but, I elected to call the dealer about it. The dealer took a defensive posture saying: "We've been installing these for 10 years and have never had a problem". I was just trying to find out if it's "standard practice" to ignore the installation of a sealing plate. Maybe the sealing plate is unnecessary. But I'd like to hear from others about this.

    Can anyone speak to this from their experience with inserts?

    Thanks....

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  2. fmsm

    fmsm Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    531
    Loc:
    South of Boston MA
    I used fireproof insulation to seal off mine. There is a blocking plate at the top of my flu that does seal the flu
  3. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

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    Jul 23, 2012
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    Loc:
    South East, MA
    Did you use something like Roxul?
  4. rmcgr8one

    rmcgr8one New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    45
    Loc:
    Southern NH
    My p35i is being installed in 12 days. How is your stove? What are you buring for pellets? How much area are you heating and how is the stove at heating that area?
  5. bugize

    bugize Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    81
    Loc:
    Skowhegan,Maine
    my dealer put one in mine
  6. fmsm

    fmsm Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    531
    Loc:
    South of Boston MA
    My stove is about a year old. I am not sue what the insulation is called a local insulation company that also happens to install fireplaces gave it to me for free. I can confirm my building inspector was fine with it.

    I received a free ton of NEWP with the stove and hated them! I pretty much gave them away. I am currently burning LaCretes and McFeeters, both pellets work great for me. I did burn a variety last year Barefoot and Cubex were two of the best Logik-E'S were also good for me. I am on the hunt for a reasonably priced shoulder pellet but have not found it yet.
  7. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    in most states, including MA, any appliance has to be installed in accordance with the manufacurer's instructions, regardless of how long the dealer has been in business or doing installations (780 CMR 51.00, Massachusetts Addendum, subsection M1401.6) : "solid fuel burning appliances shall be tested and listed by approved agencies and installed, operated and maintained in accordance with such listing, the manufacturers' requirements......."

    now, onto your manual, which is where these installation requirements are:

    http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/P35i.pdf

    see page 15 for the diagram.

    I dont see how this is nebulous, and your inspector should fail the installation.
  8. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
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    Loc:
    South East, MA
    I guess I have 2 choices: call the inspector back, have him fail the installation, and HOPE that the installer will come back and make it right. OR complete this step myself. My gut tells me that I would be opening "Pandora's Box" by getting the inspector involved again. I'd prefer to do this myself. I re-read section D on page 15, and it states: " If using a short run of venting, whether flex or rigid, through the damper and into the chimney flue; The Damper must be removed or locked in the open position and sealed with a plate constructed of steel or other non-combustible material. I remember looking into the fireplace before the installer pushed the insert in place, and there was NO "short run of venting". The flex vent barely came thru the damper before it connected to the stove's frame. The bottom line is: I want to make sure there is no fire hazard, and, that the stove is not going to be damaged by leaving the installation as it is. I was hoping to get a consensus from the group that: Don't worry this step is routinely omitted as unnecessary, or, this step is absolutely necessary for the stove to function properly.
  9. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
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    Loc:
    South East, MA
    I love the stove. LG softwood. 800 Sq Ft. and I have a pretty open floor plan, so, the stove can provide more than enough heat for my needs. Could you please let me know what your installer does with respect to "a sealing plate at the damper"?

    Thanks...
  10. fmsm

    fmsm Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    531
    Loc:
    South of Boston MA
    I am wondering what they exactly mean by "a short run of venting". Some will not run the pipe all the to the top of the chimney. If you only run it up a few feet (not the way to do it in my opinion)then I would agree you need to seal the damper with a blocking plate. My installation runs to the top of the chimney and goes through a blocking plate at the top. I can't see what good blocking the damper (other than cold/hot air) would accomplish especially if you seal it with fireproof insulation.
  11. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

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    Loc:
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    I agree with you. My install was with SS flex venting running to the top of the chimney where it's sealed and capped with a rain cap. Reading section D yet again, I take it to mean Harman is talking about a run of flex venting that DOES NOT run all the way to the top of the chimney. Then I understand the need for a sealing plate at the damper.Thanks for your input....
  12. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
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    Loc:
    South East, MA
    I think I made a mistake in the way I was interpreting Harman's install manual regarding my original post. I'm referring to page 15 section D. I do NOT have a short run of venting, my SS venting runs all the way to the top of the chimney, where it's sealed and capped.

    Sorry to all regarding my error, and thanks for all the input.....
  13. fmsm

    fmsm Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    531
    Loc:
    South of Boston MA
    I love my p35i but there are a few funky things with it. One is to make sure the side plates are seated EXACTLY perfect after cleaning. I found out the hard way if the right side is off just a hair you may not light!
  14. johnny1720

    johnny1720 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Messages:
    170
    Loc:
    The Great North East
    Just curious if they wrapped the stainless steel liner with insulation.
  15. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
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    31
    Loc:
    South East, MA
    Thanks for sharing your experiences.....
  16. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

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    Loc:
    South East, MA
    I assume you mean the section of the liner that passes down thru the damper and connects to the stove frame. No, it wasn't wrapped. When I took a look in the fireplace cavity before the installer pushed the stove into final position, the section of venting that passed thru the damper was only a few inches. Not significant enough to warrant insulating IMHO. I suppose if my fireplace cavity were taller, then the section of venting passing thru the damper would be longer and may need to be wrapped. When I have a chance, I'm going to pull the stove out enough so I can take another look to confirm the length of venting passing thru the damper.

    Was your liner wrapped?
  17. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    its supposed to be......

    http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/P35i.pdf

    see page 15.......

    once again, the installer has no authority to override the installation instructions "because theyve been installing for 10 years...blah...blah.......blah".....unimpressed by the installation so far.
  18. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
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    4,826
    Loc:
    Averill Park, NY, on Burden Lake II...
    Not to mention the fact that the P35I has only been on the market for about 5 years...
  19. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest


    good point, Daksy! And it hasnt been that long....more like 3 years
  20. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

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    Loc:
    South East, MA
    I could be wrong about this, but after re-reading Section D, I take it to mean Harman was addressing "a short-run of venting" thru the damper and DEAD ENDING a short way up the flue, as opposed to a continuous run of venting that goes all the way to the top of the chimney and is sealed and capped there. Again, maybe I'm wrong about the way I'm interpreting what's being stated....

    To express it another way, why seal BOTH the top and bottom of the flue, when sealing the top and using a vent cap would do?

    I was a little taken aback by the defensive reaction I got from the dealer. If I were the dealer, and I had a customer with a question such as this, I would have went over it with the customer in detail so as to avoid a mis-understanding.

    Perhaps further clarification from Harman would help here.....
  21. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

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    Loc:
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    Very good point....
  22. Folkers

    Folkers New Member

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    Loc:
    South East, MA
    Perhaps others could read Section D as well and give me there take. Is Harman talking about a short run of venting dead ending, or are they referring to a continuous run of venting that runs to the top of the chimney. In which case are they suggesting to seal both the top and bottom of the flue??
  23. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    simply because the installation manual says to. We cant pick and choose what we like or dont like, from an installation perspective. As for the "why do they...." questions and consternation, well, who knows?
  24. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    FWIW, I beleive that Harman is talking about ANY installation in a existing masonry fireplace, stub install or liner. The idea is to attempt to keep the mechanicals cool, which you'd have to do in either case. Please note its the same deal-io with the Accentra Insert as well.

    As for an answer from Harman here on the forum, I dont think youre gonna get one.
  25. rmcgr8one

    rmcgr8one New Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Southern NH
    I would like to know as my stove is being installed next Wednesday.

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